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Nano-engineered thermoelectrics enable scalable, compressor-free cooling

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Re: Nano-engineered thermoelectrics enable scalable, compressor-free cooling

#61

Post by RetpolineDrama »

K0balt wrote: post #44

It’s astonishing how here, in an ostensibly technical forum, the vast majority of comments are left by people who did not even skim the article. At least read through the informative comments left by those who did read it before giving your venerable opinion based on the information that was already in your head? I mean, isn’t the point of an article or paper to present new, novel information?

HN hasn't been a good place for technical discussion in at least 5-6 years, maybe longer.

X is much better for this kind of stuff these days (just follow the right people and stick to the following tab)

Re: Nano-engineered thermoelectrics enable scalable, compressor-free cooling

#62

Post by frankus »

bigattichouse wrote: post #43

A lot of people throw around 5% efficiency for Peltiers, and it's just not true - it depends heavily on the temperature differential and current vs. IMax. You can (with care) drive them >2.0 COP. This isn't anything like a compressor or heatpump system, but Peltiers get a bad rap... they move heat really well if you're not pushing them to the edge. Here's a nice chart. At 10k difference and 0.1 current max, you're ov…

Thanks for the link. One of the projects I'll probably never get around to is a thermoelectric-augmented fan coil unit for air-to-water heat pump retrofits. The existing emitters (and crucially the in-wall distribution piping that's expensive to insulate and vapor seal after the fact) would stay just above the dew point, and then the augmented fan coil would work to remove latent heat (humidity) by dropping a bit below the dew point via thermoelectric coolers that reject heat into the return piping.

It's a relatively small delta-T and in most climates a relatively small fraction of the overall cooling load, so it might just barely pencil out.

Re: Nano-engineered thermoelectrics enable scalable, compressor-free cooling

#63

Post by K0balt »

Henchman21 wrote: post #47
K0balt wrote: post #44

It’s astonishing how here, in an ostensibly technical forum, the vast majority of comments are left by people who did not even skim the article. At least read through the informative comments left by those who did read it before giving your venerable opinion based on the information that was already in your head? I mean, isn’t the point of an article or paper to present new, novel information?

It’s the day before a holiday in the US. No one is thinking, we’re all just knee-jerk existing for another handful of hours and then… Then we engage in that once a year ritual of lighting up explosives and making a pilgrimage to the ER, where no one can afford proper treatment. /s Happy 4th all! (With apologies for the wildly off topic comment)

Good point. Cheerio.

Re: Nano-engineered thermoelectrics enable scalable, compressor-free cooling

#64

Post by K0balt »

RetpolineDrama wrote: post #61
K0balt wrote: post #44

It’s astonishing how here, in an ostensibly technical forum, the vast majority of comments are left by people who did not even skim the article. At least read through the informative comments left by those who did read it before giving your venerable opinion based on the information that was already in your head? I mean, isn’t the point of an article or paper to present new, novel information?

HN hasn't been a good place for technical discussion in at least 5-6 years, maybe longer. X is much better for this kind of stuff these days (just follow the right people and stick to the following tab)

X? But then you have to follow people, and inherently that backs you into a syncopation bubble. I value HN for the diversity of well considered opinions and ideas… but sadly that is dying.

Re: Nano-engineered thermoelectrics enable scalable, compressor-free cooling

#65

Post by fnordpiglet »

audunw wrote: post #34
vlovich123 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. Heat pumps are ~10-100x more efficient than thermoelectric. Thermoelectric is just inefficient mechanism and is inherently difficult to scale up as the more electricity gets generated so does more heat which inhibits the temperature gradient you’re trying to utilize. There’s a reason water cooling is preferred instead of peltier to ferry heat away from electronic. Magnetocaloric is super interesting though as an…

It’s really, really weird to comment on the efficiency of these devices on an article like this, without actually checking the paper being referenced. Like, we know traditional thermoelectric are inefficient. But that’s the whole point of this research. To improve it. It seems like they achieve a CoP of 1.3-6.8 (depending on heat transfer load) versus e.g. - CoP of 2-4 which is common for a household refrigerator. So…

Yes CHESS starts to get pretty close to mechanical and with a few breakthroughs that are roadmapped it’ll meet and in some situations exceed mechanical cooling.

I find it odd that people respond with knowledge gained in the past to a new research article without reading it and doing some investigation first as to the roadmap behind the research and what the expected endpoints are. It’s like using the first release of BERT and declaring LLMs a dead end.

Re: Nano-engineered thermoelectrics enable scalable, compressor-free cooling

#66

Post by fnordpiglet »

dartharva wrote: post #51
fnordpiglet wrote: post #7

Thermoelectric cooling needs as much research as possible. Mechanical cooling is extraordinarily space consuming. CHESS has the potential over the next 10 years to largely replace vapor compression in most systems other than the most extreme gradients or scales. They are small enough to incorporate into most devices and would allow smaller devices more thermal load. In some ways I think efficient TEC like CHESS could…

Wait, won't thermoelectric cooling need a LOT more surface area to have any comparable cooling performance to compressor-based systems?

You can manifold CHESS TEC into curved surfaces and cool / heat gyroid / honeycomb manifolds of copper with conducting surfaces. You can also simply stack them. The curving reduces efficiency a bit - not much. Regardless there are ways to increase the surfaces area and volume cooled / heated significantly and improve efficiency through different geometries and configurations.
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