What Happens to Stolen Bicycles? • Hacker News Board

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#161

Post by zurn » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 8:43 PM UTC

What kind of insurance options exist in the US for bikes?

Over here your basic home insurance covers the bike theft minus a deductible (often something like 200e). Then you can get a separate bike insurance for 25e/year which will cover the deductible and also register the bikes serial number in a database and they (claim to) do some cooperation with the police and border officials to flag stolen bike serial numbers and return stolen bikes to owners. Your bike also gets a special sticker which probably repels bike thieves. Many retailers automatically preregister bikes with this service and include 3 months of free insurance, and include ads for the full service...

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#162

Post by marklabedz » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 8:46 PM UTC

While we're at it, bike lock advice from one of cycling's old grey beards, Sheldon Brown: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy.html

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#163

Post by kcl » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 8:46 PM UTC

markbnine wrote: post #47

If Goldman Sachs didn’t have more profitable market inefficencies to exploit, they might be out there arbitraging stolen bikes. Funny how no explanation is needed for this line. Goldman Sachs (and hence, Wall Street) is now the poster child for risk-free crime.

It's a curious line, and while when I read it I let it pass with conditional assent, I now think it's incorrect.

Wall Street has poorer-than-usual ethics, and does commit crimes for profit, but in general it is wary of the legal system. Wall Street tends not to exploit opportunities that run afoul of the legal system, even when they are risk-adjusted comparable to other opportunities. They would rather make money legally than illegally, if they can help it.

To use the wording of the article, Goldman Sachs (Wall Street) typically does not commit crimes when "the potential revenue from the crime [is] greater than the probability adjusted weight of getting caught", even if you set the adjusted revenue to average profitability.

In particular, Goldman Sachs (Wall Street) is gunshy with respect to the US legal system. From a charitable standpoint, perhaps this is out of an ethical respect for the law. From a cynical standpoint, perhaps there is another more involved risk calculation which takes into account long-term reputation and the unpredictability of political administrations and legal settlements. Given a long enough outlook cynical self-interest approaches ethics.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#164

Post by lsc » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 8:48 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #57

wtvanhest wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further, I think most HN readers when giving the opportunity to make $10,000 cash by stealing a bike would not risk it if their total possible punishment was a misdemeanor and 5 days in jail. I personally want to avoid ever having to step foot in that place for any length of time.

I've spent 24 hours in a holding cell right after high school. It was cold, my seatmates weren't particularly polite, sleeping was an awkward proposition at best. But if I was paid $2k to do it? Sure. Aside from the toilet situation, it's not significantly worse than being on a intercontinental flight. (In fact, I'd rather spend 24 hours in that cell than three hours on a turbulent flight.)

it's not the time in jail that would deter me. I mean, let me bring a book, and I'd do 24 hours in a holding cell for two grand. Heck, you could probably talk me into doing it for free if I was reasonably certain of my safety, I had some free time, and I could call it a "journalistic experience" and write about it without anyone thinking I had actually done anything wrong.

This is, I think, one of the weird things about the legal system. As someone without a record, getting any criminal record at all would have a staggeringly high cost to me. I wouldn't take even a misdemeanour for $10K. If I already had a record? eh, what's a few days spent reading?

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#165

Post by Cass » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 8:49 PM UTC

ethermal wrote: post #135

mootothemax wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is not catching the bike thieves, more that the punishment given for stealing bikes is minimal, so it's not worth the police doing much about it.

But you could make possession of stolen property (the bike) a major crime with prison and financial punishment and you weaken the demand side of things. Then using RFID or similar technology, you could embed a RFID tag somewhere in the frame. Then allow someone to report a stolen bike with a police report, very similar to a stolen vehicle report and then using remote scanners you could scan for stolen bikes very easi…

The US already proportionally has the most prisoners out of any country in the world, and I'm wary of any solution that includes making that problem worse. That kind of thing has giant socioeconomic costs and, looking at the crime rates, doesn't seem to work at making the country safer. I just don't think that finding yet another reason to put a whole bunch of people in prison (average cost per month between $2000 and $4000 at a quick google) over a bike worth $1000 is really going to make anything better in the long run.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#166

Post by March_Hare » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 8:51 PM UTC

ralfd wrote: post #97

pavel_lishin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pair of low-res cameras - one pointing forward, and one pointing upward - would result in some fantastic shots as well. (Though there may be privacy and legal concerns.)

Speaking of cameras: I wonder if bike theft is lower in the UK because of widespread CCTV surveillance?

Almost everyone I work with in London has had a bike stolen (or a least a wheel or two), and everyone I know who owns a bike also has insurance. Not great evidence, but I'm not sure theft is any lower.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#167

Post by checker » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 8:52 PM UTC

jseliger wrote: post #146

ethermal wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you could make possession of stolen property (the bike) a major crime with prison and financial punishment and you weaken the demand side of things. Then using RFID or similar technology, you could embed a RFID tag somewhere in the frame. Then allow someone to report a stolen bike with a police report, very similar to a stolen vehicle report and then using remote scanners you could scan for stolen bikes very easi…

But you could make possession of stolen property (the bike) a major crime with prison and financial punishment and you weaken the demand side of things. In legal terms, you'd have a problem with proportionality —that is, the idea that the punishment needs to fit the crime. This is partially a problem with fairness and partially a problem with incentives: if you give someone the same punishment for, say, stealing a bi…

Your example doesn't apply because death is the ceiling. It's impossible to kill someone twice, so ultimately it makes no difference to the criminal.

However, if the criminal gets 5 years for stealing a bike, and 10 years for beating someone up, the criminal might be swayed by 5 years vs 15 years.

I can see the situation where the criminal thinks "I'm already probably going to jail, might as well decrease my chances as much as possible" by beating someone up. I think most bike crimes occur when the owner isn't around though.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#168

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 8:54 PM UTC

DannoHung wrote: post #131

frankus wrote: post #81

Bike theft seems like one of those quality-of-life crimes (like graffiti and coercive squeegee-monkeys) that's begging for some kind of creative enforcement strategy. - If there's an open-air bike market at 7th and Market, it seems like you could use some of the same strategies that have been used to shut down open-air drug markets. - Police in the greater Vancouver area have had a lot of success with bait cars, but…

How about a pressurized U-lock that releases a neon-pink paint cloud if the cylinder or restraining bar is cut-through? I guess the trick would be making it get on the thief and all over the bicycle. The best would be if it also stank to high heaven.

[deleted]

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#169

Post by akgerber » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 8:55 PM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #91

TallGuyShort wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in a town that required all bikes to be registered and licensed, and all sales of bikes to go through the local government. It was such a big pain that I would rather just live with the higher risk of theft and the lack of enforcement.

What town was this?

Many towns have laws like this from the 1970s that are unenforced (except, perhaps, as an excuse to bother the people police don't like).

San Diego just repealed theirs: http://www.bikesd.org/2012/08/02/city-of-san-diego-to-remove...

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#170

Post by miccla » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 8:58 PM UTC

I love these Freakenomic-y types of articles. Really makes you think about very every day occurrences in different ways.

I thought maybe I could add some game theory into the mix, just for the sake of it. For example...

Following an economic perspective it could be viewed, given the suggestions made in the article, that for your average bike on the street it is almost impossible to protect against theft using a lock or by any other "practical" means. Therefore (bare with me) when you park your bike on the street you are in a sense "competing" with other cyclist in presenting the worst return for the criminal. Locks, paint jobs, parking locations etc. are just ways of saying to the thief "Hey, this is going to be difficult. Why not have a go at stealing that shiny looking bike next to mine." You are not solely competing against the criminals but your fellow cyclists!