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The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Against 'Stuff'

theatlantic.com

41–50 of 63 posts

Re: The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Against 'Stuff'

#41
post #5
post #2

Compare this to pg's essay "Stuff": http://paulgraham.com/stuff.html : I have too much stuff. Most people in America do. In fact, the poorer people are, the more stuff they seem to have. Hardly anyone is so poor that they can't afford a front yard full of old cars.

PG should look at a city sometime. People with junk cars can't afford to ditch them, not can afford to have more cars than rick people.

Actually, what happens is that poor people are afraid to discard their unneeded stuff, because its modicum value is still value. Whereas in the middle class, at the end of the day, 90% of the stuff you have can be thrown away because you can be mostly confident that you can buy it again if you find out you needed it after all.

Most of what us non-poor people can't throw away is either sentimental, rare, or a major investment (a pool in your backyard, for instance) that can't be easily recouped.

In short, if you feel that you have a choice in the matter, that's what wealth is.

Re: The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Against 'Stuff'

#42
post #5
post #2

Compare this to pg's essay "Stuff": http://paulgraham.com/stuff.html : I have too much stuff. Most people in America do. In fact, the poorer people are, the more stuff they seem to have. Hardly anyone is so poor that they can't afford a front yard full of old cars.

PG should look at a city sometime. People with junk cars can't afford to ditch them, not can afford to have more cars than rick people.

1-877-kars4kids

http://www.kars4kids.org/

Heh ... when I was a poor grad student, my old car died while I was far away doing an internship. I was freaked out when I saw how much some companies charged to dispose of the non-working cars. Then, I came across this charity.

In my case, I ended up getting the car to work again. Yay!

Re: The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Against 'Stuff'

#43
post #10

This resonates with me. Frankly I'm tired of owning "stuff". All I really need is a place to sleep, a laptop, a tablet, a phone and clothes. I'll get limited furniture but it'll be cheap Ikea stuff that I'll simply dispose of when I move. I don't own a TV. In fact I doubt I'll ever own a TV again. Nor do I own a big sound system. I do own a table and chairs, a sofa and a desk. All but the desk I regret. One thing tha…

Ikea furniture sucks. If it's what you can afford, well, it's still functional- but if you can afford better, I've come to feel like good furniture is worth some extra stress.

> Ikea furniture sucks.

Screenwriter John August says that Ikea's motto should be, "for now, it'll do".

Re: The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Against 'Stuff'

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ikea furniture sucks. If it's what you can afford, well, it's still functional- but if you can afford better, I've come to feel like good furniture is worth some extra stress.

> Ikea furniture sucks. Screenwriter John August says that Ikea's motto should be, "for now, it'll do".

I've owned Ikea or similar grade furniture for most of my life. It actually bothers me that I have to keep re-buying the same things over and over again. It just seems very wasteful.

Non-Ikea furniture often seems horribly overpriced. I think there is a furniture store in Mountain View that sells $1000+ shelves or coffee tables. You'd think there is a middle ground.

Re: The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Against 'Stuff'

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most of my life, I've been able to fit all of my possessions within my car, and move in one trip. Recently I've upgraded from a 20" monitor to a 46" tv. This means I'm up to 2 car trips. It's frustrating to move entirely into a new place, and find that the place looks empty and plain because you simply don't have enough objects to fill the place. In a way, it reminds me of dieting: I hate having to eat like an an…

Wouldn't it be possible to buy a bigger apartment, create two smaller ones from it, and then sell one of the two?

[deleted]

Re: The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Against 'Stuff'

#46
post #10

This resonates with me. Frankly I'm tired of owning "stuff". All I really need is a place to sleep, a laptop, a tablet, a phone and clothes. I'll get limited furniture but it'll be cheap Ikea stuff that I'll simply dispose of when I move. I don't own a TV. In fact I doubt I'll ever own a TV again. Nor do I own a big sound system. I do own a table and chairs, a sofa and a desk. All but the desk I regret. One thing tha…

When we moved from Helsinki to Berlin last spring, we took the opportunity to get rid of all the accummulated cruft, mostly by giving things away either to friends or charity. A strict regime of no books, no physical media, etc

In the end the "stuff" needed for living by two software developers boiled down to: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bergie/7662550710/in/set-721576...

(ok, on top of this there were two motorcycles that we rode over when the snows melted)

The weird thing about the move, however, is that thanks to Berlin rental situation, the flat we have there is bigger than what I ever had in Finland. While flats tend to come furnished, the place still seems very, very empty.

Given that we both have about two blocks of commute, the motorcycles are "unnecessary". But they certainly are fun on weekends.

Re: The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Against 'Stuff'

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ikea furniture sucks. Screenwriter John August says that Ikea's motto should be, "for now, it'll do".

I've owned Ikea or similar grade furniture for most of my life. It actually bothers me that I have to keep re-buying the same things over and over again. It just seems very wasteful. Non-Ikea furniture often seems horribly overpriced. I think there is a furniture store in Mountain View that sells $1000+ shelves or coffee tables. You'd think there is a middle ground.

I'm sure there used to be! But the introduction of the bargain option heavily polarized the market.

My solution has centered around two items; taking advantage of great sales at my preferred high-quality furniture retailer, and only going with the high-quality units for specific pieces of furniture.

Re: The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Against 'Stuff'

#48
I live light for 5 years already and never been happier.

Almost everything I own fits into my Travelpro Crew 8 carry-on. The only exception is seasonal clothes that I either store in an independent place or take with me: from Russia/Ukraine to South Africa can be a big climate change.

The change wasn't instant. My first steps were greatly inspired by Philip Glass and his music, and once I grasped the idea of minimalism, I understood how significant it's influence on my mind was. In the last 5 years I attended conferences all around the globe, met a lot of wonderful people, had lots of business endeavors, and never looked back. I couldn't have done that with a burden of stuff in my life.

Is it escape or is it liberation? I don't know.

Re: The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Against 'Stuff'

#49

The stuff equation changes once you have kids. Cars and appartments get bigger and stuff accumulates. Luckily you can live on a lot of hand-me-downs that get handed down again but at our house there are also continuous trips to Goodwill to get rid of stuff.

I'm seeing the when you have kids argument a lot in these threads. It seems to be a big assumption a in world where many don't want to or can't have kids.

Purely anecdotal, but it seems those who want kids tend to make more than one or two of them, while many do not procreate. This leaves very little incentive for living in the suburbia.

Re: The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Against 'Stuff'

#50

For fifteen years, I've been at a point in my belongings that I can pack and move out of a place in hours. Why hang onto all this stuff? Why spend on all these things we don't need? Why not be flexible? At this point everything I own fits into my car. Everything. I've moved from city to city while telecommuting because I could and in fact, on average I move to a new city every two years if not quicker. Stuff just glu…

This works in theory, and in practice for some people, but not everyone. For example, I don't have a lot of 'stuff' but I do have a couple of hobbies that require 'stuff' like rock climbing and backpacking. My girlfriend who lives with me is an avid scrapbooker, which inherently means she will have a lot of stuff. It's easy to not have 'stuff' if your entire life is online, but once you start to accumulate hobbies th…

That's pretty dismissive of you to assume you know anything about me or my hobbies, actually. A lot of things such as my books and music were converted digitally, but I actually have an entire recording studio setup and my gardening supplies to move as well. If anything I spend a lot of my time avoiding online activities. You can learn to cram a lot into minimalism, not everyone is the hapless nerdotron you seem to think they are.
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