Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 79 posts

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#51

Post by toomuchtodo »

tobias3 wrote: post #48
toomuchtodo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully, they'll work harder to export. Global light vehicle sales are ~90M units/year, there must be a market somewhere for these BEVs where they can at least break even, and as long as they can break even they can continue to ramp manufacturing capacity.

There are on-going EU-China talks about this topic, but currently looks like a wait-and-see approach till after the Trump 90 day deadline. Other than that idk. The solution would be to increase wages/less working hours/less financial repression in China so that they can buy the cars they produce...

Why? China should print as many EVs as they can for the world. Protectionism should be expected in countries with domestic auto industries, but most of the world does not produce light autos yet needs them. The solution is not more demand in China, but more supply to crowd combustion vehicles out of annual global vehicle sales.

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#52

Post by [deleted] »

Animats wrote: post #20

It's worse than that. Two years of declining sales at Tesla.[1] Mostly for ordinary car manufacturer reasons. Tesla hasn't had a new model in years other than the Cybertruck, which was a dud. Prices are still too high. Electric cars still cost more than gas cars in the US. This seems to be a US-only problem. Electric cars are doing fine in the rest of the world. A majority of new cars in China are electric. Here's th…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#53

Post by supportengineer »

roscas wrote: post #15
supportengineer wrote: post #3

I'm ready to buy a second one, to replace an older vehicle, but I will get a used one this time.

I just wonder why would anyone buy something from a company that has a ceo like that one. Care to tell your experience with that first one?

It has been an outstanding ownership experience.

Have there been some quality problems? Yes, some things were fixed under warranty.

But in my opinion after years of research, the overall experience (especially when you consider the Supercharger network) they are years ahead of any other manufacturer.

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#54

Post by ralferoo »

silverquiet wrote: post #29
EA-3167 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth saying that the price gouging by BYD has reached the point where their own government is publicly scolding them and telling them to stop, so I'm not sure if BYD is a model of anything we want to be following. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas... I think you're also glossing over the impact of Musk's disastrous foray into politics, his Tweeting, and his Nazi salutes.

Dumping would be the economic term for flooding a market with underpriced goods in order to drive out domestic competitors. I don't know if that's what they're doing, but it does seem plausible, though it's hard to imagine that Tesla's prices would be competitive either way.

I'm not sure that applies in this case either, as dumping is selling abroad below cost but charging a fair price in your own domestic market. This case seems to be the opposite - trying to win the domestic market by selling at a loss, and hoping that they can make enough profit on the export market to survive. Presumably this strategy only works if all the domestic competition goes bust before you.

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#55

Post by Animats »

tobias3 wrote: post #42
Animats wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk keeps saying that.[1] Tesla is not doing all that well with self-driving cars. They're behind Waymo, Zoox, and Baidu in Level 4 systems. (Level 4: good enough for a taxi service). All the major manufacturers have a Level 2 system now. A few have a Level 3 system where the driver can sit back and watch, but has to be ready to take over, which is where Tesla is now. There are at least 18 humanoid robots far enough…

Isn't Tesla at level 2 (eyes on road, hands on wheel)?

Here are the levels.[1]

The big problem is disconnects, where the autonomous system gives up and demands that the human take over. A big question with Tesla is whether "Full Self Driving (supervised)" is really a Level 3 system. It's currently "full self driving until it screws up, then it's your fault". Not "full self driving and if there's a situation it can't handle, it pulls over and parks". This is a big problem.[2]

[1] https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update

[2] https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/level-3-autonomy-what-car-buy...

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#56

Post by daveguy »

supportengineer wrote: post #53
roscas wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just wonder why would anyone buy something from a company that has a ceo like that one. Care to tell your experience with that first one?

It has been an outstanding ownership experience. Have there been some quality problems? Yes, some things were fixed under warranty. But in my opinion after years of research, the overall experience (especially when you consider the Supercharger network) they are years ahead of any other manufacturer.

Did any of your research include owning any other brand of EV?

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#57

Post by [deleted] »

guywithahat wrote: post #31
surgical_fire wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is wrong with Elon? If in the Year of our Lord 2025 you have to ask this question, I don't think any of the mutiple things I could link here would convince you otherwise.

If you think this is obvious I worry you're deep into conspiracies. I would respond more in depth but I'm not sure what conspiracies you're personally devoted to

[deleted]

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#58

Post by daveguy »

guywithahat wrote: post #31
surgical_fire wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is wrong with Elon? If in the Year of our Lord 2025 you have to ask this question, I don't think any of the mutiple things I could link here would convince you otherwise.

If you think this is obvious I worry you're deep into conspiracies. I would respond more in depth but I'm not sure what conspiracies you're personally devoted to

Seems more like you are deep into a twitter propaganda feed.

We all saw Musk's Nazi salutes, and incompetent fuckups in government. Also, he has been lying about the proximity of actual FSD for at least a decade. At least he stopped even trying to lie about a $25k car.

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#59

Post by tobias3 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #51
tobias3 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are on-going EU-China talks about this topic, but currently looks like a wait-and-see approach till after the Trump 90 day deadline. Other than that idk. The solution would be to increase wages/less working hours/less financial repression in China so that they can buy the cars they produce...

Why? China should print as many EVs as they can for the world. Protectionism should be expected in countries with domestic auto industries, but most of the world does not produce light autos yet needs them. The solution is not more demand in China, but more supply to crowd combustion vehicles out of annual global vehicle sales.

Agreed, but the Chinese want something of somewhat equal value in return nontheless. And the Chinese appetite for Sri Lankan treasuries might be limited.

They also at least need to pay for inputs and if it is only crude oil.

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#60

Post by saturn_vk »

roscas wrote: post #30
schiffern wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>so many compelling alternatives With the recent news BYD has been cooking their books, are there any alternatives left that aren't being sold at a huge loss? If the alternatives depend on subsidies from gas car sales, it would seem the automotive industry has not actually solved the problems (both technical and economic) necessary to transition the world off fossil fuels. Doesn't sound like much of an alternative (f…

Yes, the brand is Tesla. They receive money from other brands to buy fake "carbon" credits, they receive money from the state and from their shareholders. So US pays for Tesla like China does for some brands. It's the same. And an electric car is not an alternative for gas cars. A zero km electric car has already tons and tons of CO2 on it's back because mostly of the battery. It's not being "green". It's just make p…

> It's just make polution to be produced in another location.

So you prefer to have locally sourced pollution then?

Post reply on HN