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Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

wsj.com

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Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#41

Post by toomuchtodo »

roscas wrote: post #30
schiffern wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>so many compelling alternatives With the recent news BYD has been cooking their books, are there any alternatives left that aren't being sold at a huge loss? If the alternatives depend on subsidies from gas car sales, it would seem the automotive industry has not actually solved the problems (both technical and economic) necessary to transition the world off fossil fuels. Doesn't sound like much of an alternative (f…

Yes, the brand is Tesla. They receive money from other brands to buy fake "carbon" credits, they receive money from the state and from their shareholders. So US pays for Tesla like China does for some brands. It's the same. And an electric car is not an alternative for gas cars. A zero km electric car has already tons and tons of CO2 on it's back because mostly of the battery. It's not being "green". It's just make p…

> And an electric car is not an alternative for gas cars. A zero km electric car has already tons and tons of CO2 on it's back because mostly of the battery.

This is factually inaccurate.

https://about.bnef.com/insights/clean-transport/no-doubt-abo...

> As electric vehicles become a bigger part of the global car fleet, a contrarian take seems to surface every few months: are electric vehicles really that clean?

> When it comes to lifecycle emissions, the answer is a resounding yes. According to a new report by BloombergNEF, in all analyzed cases, EVs have lower lifecycle emissions than gas cars. Just how much lower depends on how far they are driven, and the cleanliness of the grid where they charge.

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#42

Post by tobias3 »

Animats wrote: post #23
kentm wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can tell, people are expecting a pivot into AI/robotics being major revenue drivers.

Musk keeps saying that.[1] Tesla is not doing all that well with self-driving cars. They're behind Waymo, Zoox, and Baidu in Level 4 systems. (Level 4: good enough for a taxi service). All the major manufacturers have a Level 2 system now. A few have a Level 3 system where the driver can sit back and watch, but has to be ready to take over, which is where Tesla is now. There are at least 18 humanoid robots far enough…

Isn't Tesla at level 2 (eyes on road, hands on wheel)?

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#43

Post by baggachipz »

roscas wrote: post #30
schiffern wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>so many compelling alternatives With the recent news BYD has been cooking their books, are there any alternatives left that aren't being sold at a huge loss? If the alternatives depend on subsidies from gas car sales, it would seem the automotive industry has not actually solved the problems (both technical and economic) necessary to transition the world off fossil fuels. Doesn't sound like much of an alternative (f…

Yes, the brand is Tesla. They receive money from other brands to buy fake "carbon" credits, they receive money from the state and from their shareholders. So US pays for Tesla like China does for some brands. It's the same. And an electric car is not an alternative for gas cars. A zero km electric car has already tons and tons of CO2 on it's back because mostly of the battery. It's not being "green". It's just make p…

>And an electric car is not an alternative for gas cars. A zero km electric car has already tons and tons of CO2 on it's back because mostly of the battery. >It's not being "green". It's just make polution to be produced in another location.

I get very tired of hearing/reading this fallacy. Yes, producing EVs creates carbon emissions, just like ICE cars. The difference, though, is that EVs offset those CO2 emissions after a few years of use. And some would say that the most "environmentally friendly" car choice is a used car, that is the case on a net-zero basis. Over time, that used car's emissions will surpass the cost to produce and operate an EV.

Usually, the fallacy described above is bundled with "but an EV uses electricity, mostly created by coal. So your car burns coal!" Even if this were the case (it's not [1]), energy production on a large scale is so much more efficient than using a small gasoline engine that it would still be much better from a carbon emissions standpoint.

[1] Coal is only 15% of the energy mix, I asked ChatGPT and burned lots of energy in the process.

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#44

Post by JumpCrisscross »

akmarinov wrote: post #28
Animats wrote: post #20

It's worse than that. Two years of declining sales at Tesla.[1] Mostly for ordinary car manufacturer reasons. Tesla hasn't had a new model in years other than the Cybertruck, which was a dud. Prices are still too high. Electric cars still cost more than gas cars in the US. This seems to be a US-only problem. Electric cars are doing fine in the rest of the world. A majority of new cars in China are electric. Here's th…

To add to this, Tesla has had barely any battery progress on range and charge rate since 2018. Here’s Model Y’s charging curve - https://evkx.net/models/tesla/model_y/model_y_long_range/cha... at 30% you’re below 150 kw Meanwhile here’s a competitor - Kia EV6 https://evkx.net/models/kia/ev6/ev6_long_range_awd/chargingc... keeping above 150 kw at around 70% You got the Audi Q6 with more range, more comfort - massaging…

> since 2018

2018 is the first year Musk’s drug abuse is documented to [1].

[1] https://www.wsj.com/business/elon-musk-illegal-drugs-e826a9e...

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#46

Post by ZeroGravitas »

Animats wrote: post #20

It's worse than that. Two years of declining sales at Tesla.[1] Mostly for ordinary car manufacturer reasons. Tesla hasn't had a new model in years other than the Cybertruck, which was a dud. Prices are still too high. Electric cars still cost more than gas cars in the US. This seems to be a US-only problem. Electric cars are doing fine in the rest of the world. A majority of new cars in China are electric. Here's th…

It's 22k in Europe (20k euro). That story is about a new 11k variant released in China, it just mentions that a variant is available in Europe too.

It's a good car and good price but freely translating Chinese prices to EU prices exaggerates slightly.

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#47

Post by JumpCrisscross »

guywithahat wrote: post #31
surgical_fire wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is wrong with Elon? If in the Year of our Lord 2025 you have to ask this question, I don't think any of the mutiple things I could link here would convince you otherwise.

If you think this is obvious I worry you're deep into conspiracies. I would respond more in depth but I'm not sure what conspiracies you're personally devoted to

I genuinely admire Elon and hope he will get the help he needs. But DOGE, the needless and stupid foray into partisan politics, the drug abuse, the breaking of contracts until he had to be sued at Twitter, the fraternising with white nationalists, the Nazi salute (and lack of an apology)…these are not things people want to associate themselves with.

The top-selling car colours are white, black and grey. Most people, including those with sports cars, don’t want to drive an opinionated car day to day. Even if you agree with Elon’s politics, you may not want everyone in town to know that.

> Tesla just misplayed the market after covid. Their cars are too expensive and too premium, which is what people wanted during covid

People have wanted cheaper cars since Tesla was founded. It’s why Musk won credibility by promising a $25,000 EV.

Then he built the Cybertruck. And instead of recognising that as a failure, Musk doubled down on nonsense, first with a self-driving car with a regulatory cross-section the size of a planet, and then with a semi-focussed robotics push.

Tesla misplayed the market and continues misplaying the market. Musk’s politics now guarantee that it is a hated brand on the right and the left, which creates issues for his plans that require government support.

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#48

Post by tobias3 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #40
tobias3 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Chinas case the term would be overcapacity since it applies to the whole sector not just BYD.

Hopefully, they'll work harder to export. Global light vehicle sales are ~90M units/year, there must be a market somewhere for these BEVs where they can at least break even, and as long as they can break even they can continue to ramp manufacturing capacity.

There are on-going EU-China talks about this topic, but currently looks like a wait-and-see approach till after the Trump 90 day deadline.

Other than that idk.

The solution would be to increase wages/less working hours/less financial repression in China so that they can buy the cars they produce...

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#49

Post by chung8123 »

mrcwinn wrote: post #12
surgical_fire wrote: post #7

The funny thing is that people had to come to the absolute conclusion that Elon is a piece of shit to finally stop buying his shitty cars. Both things have been obvious for a very long time. Better late than never.

Model Y Juniper owner here. Best car I’ve ever owned. Tons of storage. I can keep it cool at the softball field for my dog for hours. Drives great. Reliable. Don’t miss the gas station one bit. Well built with no panel gap issues. Totally respect your opinion, but you’re positioning your opinion a bit too much like objective fact.

A car that is a few months/years old is tough to judge for reliability I think

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#50

Post by tonyedgecombe »

josefritzishere wrote: post #45

At a normal corporation the board would have removed teh CEO by now. All politics aside, the sales and stock performance is a firable offense.

Without Musk the stock price would crash, with him sales are crashing.
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