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Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

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Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#21

Post by surgical_fire »

guywithahat wrote: post #18
surgical_fire wrote: post #7

The funny thing is that people had to come to the absolute conclusion that Elon is a piece of shit to finally stop buying his shitty cars. Both things have been obvious for a very long time. Better late than never.

What is wrong with Elon? All I've seen are hit pieces peddling misinformation. If we were to look at this critically, I think Tesla just misplayed the market after covid. Their cars are too expensive and too premium, which is what people wanted during covid but as the market becomes more competitive people are looking for more affordable options

> What is wrong with Elon?

If in the Year of our Lord 2025 you have to ask this question, I don't think any of the mutiple things I could link here would convince you otherwise.

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#22

Post by EA-3167 »

Animats wrote: post #20

It's worse than that. Two years of declining sales at Tesla.[1] Mostly for ordinary car manufacturer reasons. Tesla hasn't had a new model in years other than the Cybertruck, which was a dud. Prices are still too high. Electric cars still cost more than gas cars in the US. This seems to be a US-only problem. Electric cars are doing fine in the rest of the world. A majority of new cars in China are electric. Here's th…

It's worth saying that the price gouging by BYD has reached the point where their own government is publicly scolding them and telling them to stop, so I'm not sure if BYD is a model of anything we want to be following.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas...

I think you're also glossing over the impact of Musk's disastrous foray into politics, his Tweeting, and his Nazi salutes.

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#23

Post by Animats »

kentm wrote: post #19
padjo wrote: post #8

And still trading at a p/e of 180+. Anyone able to offer an explanation?

As far as I can tell, people are expecting a pivot into AI/robotics being major revenue drivers.

Musk keeps saying that.[1]

Tesla is not doing all that well with self-driving cars. They're behind Waymo, Zoox, and Baidu in Level 4 systems. (Level 4: good enough for a taxi service). All the major manufacturers have a Level 2 system now. A few have a Level 3 system where the driver can sit back and watch, but has to be ready to take over, which is where Tesla is now.

There are at least 18 humanoid robots far enough along to have YouTube videos, none of which are commercially successful. There's no reason Tesla will dominate that industry, if and when it gets going.

When those industries get going, there's no reason to expect they will have high margins. Humanoid robots compete with low-wage workers. Self driving cars compete with Uber drivers.

[1] https://hgbr.org/elon-musk-unveils-teslas-ambitious-2025-vis...

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#24

Post by amanaplanacanal »

EA-3167 wrote: post #22
Animats wrote: post #20

It's worse than that. Two years of declining sales at Tesla.[1] Mostly for ordinary car manufacturer reasons. Tesla hasn't had a new model in years other than the Cybertruck, which was a dud. Prices are still too high. Electric cars still cost more than gas cars in the US. This seems to be a US-only problem. Electric cars are doing fine in the rest of the world. A majority of new cars in China are electric. Here's th…

It's worth saying that the price gouging by BYD has reached the point where their own government is publicly scolding them and telling them to stop, so I'm not sure if BYD is a model of anything we want to be following. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas... I think you're also glossing over the impact of Musk's disastrous foray into politics, his Tweeting, and his Nazi salutes.

I've never heard of pricing a product too low called "price gouging" before.

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#26

Post by schiffern »

linotype wrote: post #14

Giving the middle finger to the people that helped build your brand probably isn’t a great way to inspire repeat customers, especially with so many compelling apolitical alternatives.

  >so many compelling alternatives
With the recent news BYD has been cooking their books, are there any alternatives left that aren't being sold at a huge loss?

If the alternatives depend on subsidies from gas car sales, it would seem the automotive industry has not actually solved the problems (both technical and economic) necessary to transition the world off fossil fuels.

Doesn't sound like much of an alternative (for the planet), really.

Legacy auto talks a big game about the entire industry electrifying, but their actions say they're flushing money on compliance cars and stalling until they can kill EV mandates or kill Tesla or (preferably) both.

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#27

Post by [deleted] »

schiffern wrote: post #26
linotype wrote: post #14

Giving the middle finger to the people that helped build your brand probably isn’t a great way to inspire repeat customers, especially with so many compelling apolitical alternatives.

>so many compelling alternatives With the recent news BYD has been cooking their books, are there any alternatives left that aren't being sold at a huge loss? If the alternatives depend on subsidies from gas car sales, it would seem the automotive industry has not actually solved the problems (both technical and economic) necessary to transition the world off fossil fuels. Doesn't sound like much of an alternative (f…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#28

Post by akmarinov »

Animats wrote: post #20

It's worse than that. Two years of declining sales at Tesla.[1] Mostly for ordinary car manufacturer reasons. Tesla hasn't had a new model in years other than the Cybertruck, which was a dud. Prices are still too high. Electric cars still cost more than gas cars in the US. This seems to be a US-only problem. Electric cars are doing fine in the rest of the world. A majority of new cars in China are electric. Here's th…

To add to this, Tesla has had barely any battery progress on range and charge rate since 2018.

Here’s Model Y’s charging curve - https://evkx.net/models/tesla/model_y/model_y_long_range/cha... at 30% you’re below 150 kw

Meanwhile here’s a competitor - Kia EV6 https://evkx.net/models/kia/ev6/ev6_long_range_awd/chargingc... keeping above 150 kw at around 70%

You got the Audi Q6 with more range, more comfort - massaging seats, screens everywhere, fancy lights.

7 years with barely any progress.

Then there’s the design - Model X has never head a meaningful exterior design refresh.

Model S hasn’t had one in years since the nose design refresh.

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#29

Post by silverquiet »

EA-3167 wrote: post #22
Animats wrote: post #20

It's worse than that. Two years of declining sales at Tesla.[1] Mostly for ordinary car manufacturer reasons. Tesla hasn't had a new model in years other than the Cybertruck, which was a dud. Prices are still too high. Electric cars still cost more than gas cars in the US. This seems to be a US-only problem. Electric cars are doing fine in the rest of the world. A majority of new cars in China are electric. Here's th…

It's worth saying that the price gouging by BYD has reached the point where their own government is publicly scolding them and telling them to stop, so I'm not sure if BYD is a model of anything we want to be following. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas... I think you're also glossing over the impact of Musk's disastrous foray into politics, his Tweeting, and his Nazi salutes.

Dumping would be the economic term for flooding a market with underpriced goods in order to drive out domestic competitors. I don't know if that's what they're doing, but it does seem plausible, though it's hard to imagine that Tesla's prices would be competitive either way.

Re: Tesla's Global Vehicle Deliveries Plunged in Second Quarter

#30

Post by roscas »

schiffern wrote: post #26
linotype wrote: post #14

Giving the middle finger to the people that helped build your brand probably isn’t a great way to inspire repeat customers, especially with so many compelling apolitical alternatives.

>so many compelling alternatives With the recent news BYD has been cooking their books, are there any alternatives left that aren't being sold at a huge loss? If the alternatives depend on subsidies from gas car sales, it would seem the automotive industry has not actually solved the problems (both technical and economic) necessary to transition the world off fossil fuels. Doesn't sound like much of an alternative (f…

Yes, the brand is Tesla. They receive money from other brands to buy fake "carbon" credits, they receive money from the state and from their shareholders.

So US pays for Tesla like China does for some brands. It's the same.

And an electric car is not an alternative for gas cars. A zero km electric car has already tons and tons of CO2 on it's back because mostly of the battery.

It's not being "green". It's just make polution to be produced in another location.

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