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Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

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Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#41

Post by crmd »

Earlier in my career I worked for a tech industry-famous CEO who is long retired.

One of the most unconventional things he taught me was that “our highest obligation is to employees and their families. Second is to investors. Third is to the communities we operate in. Obviously don’t ever say this in a board meeting or investor conference”.

And he meant it. When products got cancelled, people got reassigned. Terminations for poor performance happened but were individual cases.

I’m quite sure the idea of firing people to goose the share price never even crossed his mind.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#42

Post by sokoloff »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #33
idkwhattocallme wrote: post #9

For the most part, I'm indifferent to layoffs. Companies over hire and then course correct. It's part of the game. But for MSFT, it rubs me the wrong way. In the past 5 years, their stock has soared (150% on stock and doubled in valuation). They are insanely profitable ($82B profit). They are diverse (no existential business risk). The fact that they are unceremoniously laying off 30K of the people that helped them g…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_and_unions I know, I know, "union bad." I guess people will say that until all that is left is a person to watch the Machine, and a dog to bite the person if they touch the Machine. Or all the jobs are offshored to the cheapest labor on the globe.

10 unions was evidently not enough to avoid this outcome. Perhaps if it went to 11, it would be “unions good”?

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#43

Post by nyarlathotep_ »

I do wonder if these trends continue (paired with the offshoring and H1B replacements they're all in on (otherwise mentioned in this thread), how this effects the local housing markets in places like, in this case, Seattle.

If every third 22 year old isn't making 200K, how are you going to sustain a market of crapshacks "worth" 1M?

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#44

Post by darth_avocado »

shadowtree wrote: post #16

This pairs well with: 1 - Microsoft investing 3bn USD in India-based developers: https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-invest-3-bln-ex... 2 - Microsoft having 4700 H1B filings for fiscal 2025: https://www.myvisajobs.com/employer/microsoft/ Utterly predictable behavior by Satya Nadella.

The layoffs are mostly in the sales division as pointed out by other commentators. H1B filings most likely would not be in sales.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#45

Post by darth_avocado »

amendegree wrote: post #30
shadowtree wrote: post #16

This pairs well with: 1 - Microsoft investing 3bn USD in India-based developers: https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-invest-3-bln-ex... 2 - Microsoft having 4700 H1B filings for fiscal 2025: https://www.myvisajobs.com/employer/microsoft/ Utterly predictable behavior by Satya Nadella.

Not to hate on immigrants… but shouldn’t H1B’s be the first on the chopping block of layoffs? Hard to imagine all those H1Bs are so unique that others already employed can’t replace them.

So you are hating on immigrants…

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#46

Post by jimmydddd »

crmd wrote: post #35

I don’t remember when it became normalized for profitable companies to casually execute major layoffs. It used to be a “shameful” last resort that CEOs turned to as a last ditch effort to save a company facing bankruptcy. I suspect it’s related to the stock buyback safe harbor rule (Rule 10b-18.) Layoff announcements used to be a sign of a company in crisis, now the stock price often immediately rises, perhaps becaus…

The Wall Street bros love layoffs. They think it makes a company more efficient. They don't see it at all as a problem with management, they just think it's a great idea. So the stock often goes up with a layoff announcement.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#47

Post by daxfohl »

idkwhattocallme wrote: post #9

For the most part, I'm indifferent to layoffs. Companies over hire and then course correct. It's part of the game. But for MSFT, it rubs me the wrong way. In the past 5 years, their stock has soared (150% on stock and doubled in valuation). They are insanely profitable ($82B profit). They are diverse (no existential business risk). The fact that they are unceremoniously laying off 30K of the people that helped them g…

They're still hiring though. If layoffs are a prereq for hiring fresh blood, maybe it's worth the cost? Especially if hiring is weighted toward new grads and junior engineers, which are in the midst of a historically bad employment market right now. It's a stretch, but just a thought.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#48

Post by sokoloff »

crmd wrote: post #35

I don’t remember when it became normalized for profitable companies to casually execute major layoffs. It used to be a “shameful” last resort that CEOs turned to as a last ditch effort to save a company facing bankruptcy. I suspect it’s related to the stock buyback safe harbor rule (Rule 10b-18.) Layoff announcements used to be a sign of a company in crisis, now the stock price often immediately rises, perhaps becaus…

So, 43 years ago?

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#49

Post by heathrow83829 »

idkwhattocallme wrote: post #9

For the most part, I'm indifferent to layoffs. Companies over hire and then course correct. It's part of the game. But for MSFT, it rubs me the wrong way. In the past 5 years, their stock has soared (150% on stock and doubled in valuation). They are insanely profitable ($82B profit). They are diverse (no existential business risk). The fact that they are unceremoniously laying off 30K of the people that helped them g…

the first responsibility of any company is profitability. they have no economic, moral or ethical obligation to keep employees (no matter how well they performed), if it doesn't help them be more profitable. this should not be news.

I think "low performance" is typically just a scapegoat. the real reason is they simply don't need that many empolyees to maximize profitability.

Re: Microsoft to Cut 9k Workers in Second Wave of Major Layoffs

#50

Post by toomuchtodo »

sokoloff wrote: post #42
toomuchtodo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_and_unions I know, I know, "union bad." I guess people will say that until all that is left is a person to watch the Machine, and a dog to bite the person if they touch the Machine. Or all the jobs are offshored to the cheapest labor on the globe.

10 unions was evidently not enough to avoid this outcome. Perhaps if it went to 11, it would be “unions good”?

It took us decades to get to this outcome (since the Reagan era), I assume it'll take decades to get out of it. Mental models are rigid, progress occurs one funeral time (Max Planck), ~2M people 55+ in the US age out every year (~5k per day), so the opportunity is with young folks who will or already are in the workforce, etc. It ain't happening overnight.

Solutions such as "try harder," "be more lucky," or "just find another job" are...not very actionable when you consider that ~60% of Americans cannot afford a basic quality of life and the current labor macro.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/what-you-need-to-kn...

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/12/majoritie...

https://news.gallup.com/poll/510281/unions-strengthening.asp...

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Labor-Unions-And-...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_unions_in_the_United_Sta...

(i am once again asking you to think in systems)

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