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I'm dialing back my LLM usage

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Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#31

Post by pier25 »

x187463 wrote: post #11

Am I spending too much time on HN or is every post/comment section filled with this same narrative? Basically, LLMs are exciting but they produce messy code for which the dev feels no ownership. Managing a codebase written by an LLM is difficult because you have not cognitively loaded the entire thing into your head as you do with code written yourself. They're okay for one-off scripts or projects you do not intend t…

> Managing a codebase written by an LLM is difficult because you have not cognitively loaded the entire thing into your head as you do with code written yourself.

I don't think that's the main reason. Well written code is easier to follow even when you haven't written it yourself (or maybe you did but forgot about it).

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#32

Post by jimbokun »

I think LLMs have made a lot of developers forget the lessons in "Simple Made Easy":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxdOUGdseq4

LLMs seem to be really good at reproducing the classic Ball of Mud, that can't really be refactored or understood.

There's a lot of power in creating simple components that interact with other simple components to produce complex functionality. While each component is easy to understand and debug and predict its performance. The trick is to figure out how to decompose your complex problem into these simple components and their interactions.

I suppose once LLMs get really good at that skill, will be when we really won't need developers any more.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#33

Post by jimbokun »

x187463 wrote: post #11

Am I spending too much time on HN or is every post/comment section filled with this same narrative? Basically, LLMs are exciting but they produce messy code for which the dev feels no ownership. Managing a codebase written by an LLM is difficult because you have not cognitively loaded the entire thing into your head as you do with code written yourself. They're okay for one-off scripts or projects you do not intend t…

Of course it's the main topic because it's an existential question for almost all our careers.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#34

Post by [deleted] »

chasing wrote: post #12

LLMs save me a lot of time as a software engineer because they save me a ton of time doing either boilerplate work or mundane tasks that are relatively conceptually easy but annoying to actually have to do/type/whatever in an IDE. But I still more-or-less have to think like a software engineer. That's not going to go away. I have to make sure the code remains clean and well-organized -- which, for example, LLMs can h…

[deleted]

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#35

Post by mandevil »

danielbln wrote: post #19
quaintdev wrote: post #6

LLMs have limits. They are super powerful but they can't make the kind of leap humans can. For example, I asked both Claude and Gemini below problem. "I want to run webserver on Android but it does not allow binding on ports lower than 1000. What are my options?" Both responded with below solutions 1. Use reverse proxy 2. Root the phone 3. Run on higher port Even after asking them to rethink they couldn't come up wit…

I'm not sure I would measure LLMs on recommending a fairly obscure and rather new spec that isn't even fully supported by e.g. Chrome. That's a leap that I, a human, wouldn't have made either.

On the other hand, I find that "someone who has read all the blogs and papers and so can suggest something you might have missed" is my favorite use case for LLM, so seeing that it can miss a useful (and novel to me) idea is annoying.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#36

Post by skeeter2020 »

totalperspectiv wrote: post #20
x187463 wrote: post #11

Am I spending too much time on HN or is every post/comment section filled with this same narrative? Basically, LLMs are exciting but they produce messy code for which the dev feels no ownership. Managing a codebase written by an LLM is difficult because you have not cognitively loaded the entire thing into your head as you do with code written yourself. They're okay for one-off scripts or projects you do not intend t…

I think you hit the nail on the head with the mental model part. I really like this method of thinking about programming "Programming as Theory Building" https://gist.github.com/onlurking/fc5c81d18cfce9ff81bc968a7f... I don't mind when other programmers use AI, and use it myself. What I mind is the abdication of responsibility for the code or result. I don't think that we should be issuing a disclaimer when we use AI…

Isn't this what Brooks describes, stating more than 50 years ago that there's a fundamental shift when a system can no longer be held in a single mind, and the communication & coordination load that results from adding people? It seems with a single person offloading the work to an LLM right at the start they give up this efficiency before even beginning, so unless you're getting AI to do all the work it will eventually bite you...

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#37

Post by alonsonic »

x187463 wrote: post #11

Am I spending too much time on HN or is every post/comment section filled with this same narrative? Basically, LLMs are exciting but they produce messy code for which the dev feels no ownership. Managing a codebase written by an LLM is difficult because you have not cognitively loaded the entire thing into your head as you do with code written yourself. They're okay for one-off scripts or projects you do not intend t…

Yes, it's very polarized. That being said, people have shown a lot of code produced by LLMs so I don't understand the dismissive argument you make at the end.

Below is a link to a great article by Simon Willison explaining an LLM assisted workflow and the resulting coded tools.

[0] https://simonwillison.net/2025/Mar/11/using-llms-for-code/ [1] https://github.com/simonw/tools

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#38

Post by skeeter2020 »

pier25 wrote: post #31
x187463 wrote: post #11

Am I spending too much time on HN or is every post/comment section filled with this same narrative? Basically, LLMs are exciting but they produce messy code for which the dev feels no ownership. Managing a codebase written by an LLM is difficult because you have not cognitively loaded the entire thing into your head as you do with code written yourself. They're okay for one-off scripts or projects you do not intend t…

> Managing a codebase written by an LLM is difficult because you have not cognitively loaded the entire thing into your head as you do with code written yourself. I don't think that's the main reason. Well written code is easier to follow even when you haven't written it yourself (or maybe you did but forgot about it).

I argue you still need to cognitively load the solution, it's just that well written code allows you to (a) segment the code base effectively and (b) hold it at a higher level of abstraction.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#39

Post by ctippett »

quaintdev wrote: post #6

LLMs have limits. They are super powerful but they can't make the kind of leap humans can. For example, I asked both Claude and Gemini below problem. "I want to run webserver on Android but it does not allow binding on ports lower than 1000. What are my options?" Both responded with below solutions 1. Use reverse proxy 2. Root the phone 3. Run on higher port Even after asking them to rethink they couldn't come up wit…

Huh, that's a neat trick. Your comment is the first I'm learning of HTTPS RR records... so I won't pass judgement on whether an AI should've known enough to suggest it.

Re: I'm dialing back my LLM usage

#40

Post by furyofantares »

x187463 wrote: post #11

Am I spending too much time on HN or is every post/comment section filled with this same narrative? Basically, LLMs are exciting but they produce messy code for which the dev feels no ownership. Managing a codebase written by an LLM is difficult because you have not cognitively loaded the entire thing into your head as you do with code written yourself. They're okay for one-off scripts or projects you do not intend t…

We're going through something.
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