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Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com

31–40 of 107 posts

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#31
> Just finding a place with public Wi-Fi is a serious effort

That boils down, mostly, to poor infrastructure. It's getting better at airports.

> This is a police requirement that is supposed to track terrorists. Unfortunately, we are yet to see a case where this requirement has managed to stop a terror attack in India.

It is known with proofs that many threats emails were sent from internet cafes. That was the real motive.

> Photocopy issues

I carry color photocopied ids everywhere in India. This is about not knowing where to get what.

> But no nation does it at the cost of its own citizens. No free country harasses, and humiliates, its own citizens.

TSA of the US comes to my mind, and that too, is just a security theatre as has been pointed out so many times here on HN!

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#32
post #29

A few years ago I had traveled to India, and had plans to leave the country for a week then return. Big mistake. I was advised to go to the Indian embassy in the destination country to get permission to come back. I did so, they took my passport and told me to come back the following day, hence delaying my travels within that country by a day. I returned to India ok. When i was leaving India I was asked why I had not…

Perhaps they were trying to motivate you into bribing them.

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#34
post #8

My experiences are unlike the blog says. You've got to know your city and where the services, things are not that organized ofcourse. Also, India is big on Human powered telephony search query based services(see 1). It really really works here. For example, you could ask who runs the nearest color copier via phone, and the answer would be SMSed to you. Also another thing which is unique in India, is the home delivery…

This doesn't sound like a good thing.

This sounds like something one would expect when you combine ridiculous bureaucracy with lots of poverty.

When you can't remove friction from getting things done, you just outsource anything frustrating to someone poorer.

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#36
post #29

A few years ago I had traveled to India, and had plans to leave the country for a week then return. Big mistake. I was advised to go to the Indian embassy in the destination country to get permission to come back. I did so, they took my passport and told me to come back the following day, hence delaying my travels within that country by a day. I returned to India ok. When i was leaving India I was asked why I had not…

Stay in the US and have your so called right to privacy

http://www.bgr.com/2012/08/27/u-s-government-domestic-survei...

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#37

I am not sure if India is a police state yet or not. I think tourists don't have it easy as they don't understand the country as well as the natives. If you are a native you do know how to get things done. However, it is true that India is on the slippery slope where its most important democratic institutions are slowly breaking down. The first to go was the media, an example of which was the media now running paid c…

A free press is something that India can still be proud of. While the media might be silly at times, they are free ( to be silly as well ).

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. The recent media coverage of the recent riots and migration was distressing, marking yet another nadir in their slide downwards. I got better reports from following leads on reddit and forums than I did from looking at the media. At first I didn't give credence to what people said about the media being mouth pieces for various parties. Now I wouldn't trust them if they told me the earth was round. The judiciary…

I think Manmohan Singh gets far too much credit for the reforms. Those who have studied Indian Economics will know that liberalization was forced on us. We were close to bankruptcy in 1991 and the IMF forced the reforms on us in exchange for a bailout. Unfortunately, having branded him as an architect of our reforms, we have also set our expectations very high.

What makes you think I don't know?

The balance of payments crisis was a long time brewing, and books have been written to do it justice.

Heres how it went -

Rajiv Gandhi was murdered in 1991.

That year a "stop gap" intellectual was made Prime Minister, The now un-lamented Narasimha Rao.

He chose Manmohan Singh, a quiet intellectual to be his Finance Minister.

Manmohan was the planner, and Rao the force that allowed him to follow his goals. Manmohan in turn broke the task down and gave it to several different competent people to implement.

At one point, over 3 days, the devalued the RS by 20%.

Following that he told the new commerce minister, P. Chidambaram, that he wanted to abolish the export subsidy, because the lowered RS was enough of an incentive.

That would have ended his Chidambaram as a commerce minister, since it was his only way to encourage exports. Yet he had to agree in the end.

So he asked if he could also announce a formal trade reform at the same time.

He and Montek Singh worked to demolish the import licensing raj and had only 8 hours to manage it. They settled on an exim scrips, which allowed market forces to help settle currency trades, and removed the bureaucrat from the process.

40 years of red tape, vested interest, a wounded economy, and under the hardest of deadlines they managed to slice off a huge chunk of that.

If you think, the details of that are trivial or obvious, please spend some time to read the document.

When asked, Manmohan Singh said that it was worth doing, and Narasimha Rao signed the bill.

Thats how a good team works. They had a good FM, a PM which was willing to do the task, however reluctantly, and well ordered subordinates.

Other countries have faced easier challenges and failed.

And thats only the dismantling of the export license raj. They dismantled the industry side of the raj. Then they went on to abolish the MRTP act, opened up everything from banking to airlines, allowed foreign investment (remember Coke buying thums up?), reduced tax rates, and on and on.

This happened over 2 years. They didn't have to beyond a point though. They could have said "this is well enough".

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When you say > Those who have studied Indian Economics will know that liberalization was forced on us.

You make it sound like a trivial task. As if one were breaking an egg.

Ask Russia how it went for them after Yelstin, in contrast. I never saw tanks having to protect our Parliament from a coup.

The theory du jour is to reduce the importance of Manmohan Singh to the reform process. But these reductions first don't understand the role he played in the first place.

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#39
post #22
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the owners of the internet café also has to keep a record of all sites visited Sorry, but that is just not true.

Ok maybe not all site but they are encourage to snoop http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/new... bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18434112

Virtually no cafe's (by which I mean I know of none and have heard of none) do what the Police are asking in your first link. It is completely optional, and indeed may break other laws such as the Data Protection Act if not done properly and with notice to the user.

With regards to the second link, that law is a fair way off and already faces quite stiff opposition. Similar but less intrusive laws already in place which require ISPs to retain certain logs if requested have not yet proved too onerous (and have not been abused on a large scale), and certainly don't interfere directly with most peoples use of the net, at home or in public spaces like internet cafes. This isn't to say that I support the existing laws, I don't, but they are in no way of the same type, scale or intrusiveness as the situation described in the article.

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