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Apple weighs using Anthropic or OpenAI to power Siri

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Re: Apple weighs using Anthropic or OpenAI to power Siri

#81
post #7

At this point, just about anything Apple can do will be way way way better than the absolute turd that is Siri. (It was only impressive 15 years ago). Apple's AI strategy has seriously hurt their reputation. I'd love to be a fly on the wall where they discussed a strategy that amounted to "forget using the most basic LLM to understand combinations of commands like, stop all the timers and just keep the one that has a…

I know this is the leading narrative, but I actually disagree. Apple has a wonderful set of products without any form of generative AI, and those products continues to exist. Yes there is opportunity to add some fancy natural-language based search / control, but that seems like relatively low hanging fruit compared to the moat they have and defend. Will adding gen ai natively to apple products have people non-trivial…

There is a consequence to shifting to LLMs. Despite Siri's reputation, it is a well used product(1), and despite HN's constant noise, Siri actually works very well for the purposes of controlling other apple devices in ways that I've noticed to be far better than Alexa (the other digital assistant that I regularly use).

Switching that to an LLM-based represents a massive increase in computational requirements without pushing the needle for most requests. While fancy, users don't want to sit and have a verbose ChatGPT style conversation with Siri, they just want the command run and done. So this means any advertised change to Siri will need to be sufficiently large such that Siri could seemingly decode any request with minimal or no follow-up questioning, anything short of this will be largely derided, and face the same backlash as current-era Siri.

At the moment siri answers many trivial requests without the use of an LLM. Yes you can speak to siri with relative terms or needs based requests, e.g. saying "It's dark in here" will result in siri turning on the lights in just the room where the request was made(2), even if other receivers in the house heard the request. It's also smart enough to recognise that if you label a room as something like the "office" but later made a request for the "study", it will prompt if actually meant the "office".

The big caveat here is that Siri's abilities change based on the language selected, non-english languages appear to have less flexibility in the type of request and the syntax used. Another factor is that requests during certain peak periods appear to be handled differently, as if there are fall-back levels of AI smarts at the server level. To get around that new Siri will need to be largely offline, which appears consistent with Apple's new AI strategy of local models for basic tasks and complex requests being sent to private cloud compute.

Like Apple Maps, I anticipate the pile-on to Siri will go on far longer than deserved, but what does seem certain is that change is coming.

(1) Apple have stated that Siri is the most used digital assistant. However I have not found any supporting data for this claim other than Apple's own keynote address where the claim was made.

(2) Requires that rooms are set up in homekit and there are per-room based receivers, such as a homepod in each room.

Re: Apple weighs using Anthropic or OpenAI to power Siri

#82
Siri is basically only good for checking the weather, starting a timer and basic maths.

It messes up half the tasks I ask of it:

Alarm rings: "Hey siri, stop" -> "Which alarm would you like me to delete?"

"Hey siri how far is from the bottom of [hiking trail] to the top?" "It'll take you x hours to walk from your location to the trail.".

"Hey siri call Jeff" [Calls different person]

It always keeps listening until I tell it to go away. Feel free to reply with your examples of not being taken Sirisly.

Re: Apple weighs using Anthropic or OpenAI to power Siri

#83
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If OpenAI released a phone Apple’s sales will be down 50%. At this point only a handful of apps that are irreplaceable are propping iOS up and that won’t last.

What data backs this take of yours? What irreplaceable apps are propping up iOS? What's the data showing that 50% of iPhone users are basically just begging to get off the platform?

> What irreplaceable apps are propping up iOS?

EV charging and smart ID (aka gov id). To lesser extent - anything thats a smart hardware - home automation, cameras, vacuums, cars, drones, etc. Then there’s services - namely ride hailing, escooter hire. Plenty of mobile webapps are pretty crippled too so you download apps.

Re: Apple weighs using Anthropic or OpenAI to power Siri

#85
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What data backs this take of yours? What irreplaceable apps are propping up iOS? What's the data showing that 50% of iPhone users are basically just begging to get off the platform?

> What irreplaceable apps are propping up iOS? EV charging and smart ID (aka gov id). To lesser extent - anything thats a smart hardware - home automation, cameras, vacuums, cars, drones, etc. Then there’s services - namely ride hailing, escooter hire. Plenty of mobile webapps are pretty crippled too so you download apps.

Don't know about EV stuff but I don't think normal ID cards are going anywhere. All the home automation stuff I've gotten speaks UPNP, my quadcopter doesn't have an app at all AFAIK but I shopped for an open source one. All the services seem to be moving toward the web just because dealing with the review processes is annoying and all you get from it is push notifications.

Re: Apple weighs using Anthropic or OpenAI to power Siri

#86
post #14
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are competing against Gemini on Android, so it stands to reason that they need something on par with that. Per TFA they are still talking about running those models on Apple's own servers. The more interesting question is how they're going to handle the 180 on all the talk about privacy.

They could secretly make Siri slightly better in intervals. People have a low opinion of Siri anyways. No way they compare Siri to Gemini. For them, Siri might just stop sucking completely at some point and then the comparison is between the Siri of the last several weeks and the old Siri.

There's very low margin of error for a user trying something over speech (where they don't know what's actually capable). A user tends to try something once, if it fails they nearly never try it again. So now the question is, how do you get a user to try it again when you've fixed it? Alexa's approach has just about driven everyone mad "By the way, did you know..."

Re: Apple weighs using Anthropic or OpenAI to power Siri

#88
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t matter. No one buys an iPhone for Siri and no one switches to Android for whatever they call this thing. I have owned an iPhone for more than 15 years, and I have used Siri a dozen times. They will implement something using GPT-4 or Claude and this whole mess will be forgotten.

I would. Hands free in the car or when mowing the grass, chatting with the AI would be huge. "Text my wife and say I'll be late." is still too much to ask: it responds with 20 questions about all the parameters. "turn up the volume" does actually work for the first time, lately. (Bravo, Android). "open app antenna pod and begin playing" is way out of the question. Suck.

If you rename your wife on your contact list to "my wife" it'll work!

"Test and say I'll be late" works fine. Sometimes the message gets sent, sometimes a request for confirmation is asked first. Irritating it isn't consistent.

> "open app antenna pod and begin playing"

This should work with the old Google assistant even, assuming the app added the proper integrations.

Re: Apple weighs using Anthropic or OpenAI to power Siri

#89

I find this all quite baffling. I’m pretty sure I could knock up a decent Siri clone with got4o-mini, because I already did a bootleg Alexa to power our smart home stuff after Amazon removed the privacy controls. The only hard bit was the wake word. Siri is currently so terrible that even something like Mistral 8b could do a decent job. Whey don’t they just run something like that on their own servers instead?

while everyone agrees that Siri is crap saying you can knock out a decent clone yourself completely underestimate the complexities involved

Re: Apple weighs using Anthropic or OpenAI to power Siri

#90
Hope they can address the fact that many devices we use for Siri are low powered and it’s not practical to put expensive chips in them, such as our Homepods.

I’m sure that has something to do with why something like OpenAI looks attractive. The situation where they would want to run own AI is to run locally on device.

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