Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff • Hacker News Board

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#341

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jun 29, 2025, 9:46 PM UTC

suzzer99 wrote: post #279

photochemsyn wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who reject in-group socio-economic norms and isolate themselves from their previous in-group may or may not be mentally ill. If they were in one of those cults that programs their members behaviors incessantly, then it's entirely plausible that they became sane and escaped from a community of insane people. For example, I've met several people who reported the set of symptoms and behaviors you describe - but i…

This isn't one of those cases. She had a career and tons of friends and now she's shunned everything. Her family lives in another state and had zero influence on her life. But we can't do anything because she still knows how to take care of herself and isn't a danger to herself or others. So it's just sad.

[deleted]

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#342

Post by talentedcoin » Sun, Jun 29, 2025, 10:02 PM UTC

mandmandam wrote: post #270

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do, in fact, have all three. I don't believe you. If you had, you would have led with it, just like I did. I value people that have skin in the game. Jenny McCarthy is a big fat pain in the ass, but she really does have an autistic kid, is a good mother, and has formed her worldview around that. > So please, stop with the reefer madness. WTF? I've never believed that crap in my life. Interesting that it's importa…

> I don't believe you. If you had, you would have led with it, just like I did. You really can't imagine someone arguing from scientific research over their own personal experience? > Jenny McCarthy is a big fat pain in the ass Again with the autism/vaccines comparison, again missing the point, again doing yourself and your family member a disservice. > WTF? I've never believed that crap in my life. You keep repeatin…

The one paper you keep shopping around here does indeed affirm that CBD may have some neuroprotective properties. That doesn’t change the fact that for the vast majority of people susceptible to schizophrenia or psychosis, that cannabis (always a mixture of THC and CBD in its natural state) is dangerous for them and can trigger mental issues. You can feel superior or more intelligent than others as much as you like, but that will not change this fact. You are getting a negative reaction from people who know this because we have been negatively affected by it, either ourselves or people we know. If you yourself “engage with the research” beyond your tunnel vision, you will see that the link between cannabis and mental issues is pretty well established by this point. In fact, refusal to acknowledge downsides of cannabis use is one of the hallmarks of cannabis use disorder. Pluck the beam out of your own eye.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#343

Post by yorpinn » Sun, Jun 29, 2025, 10:03 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #281

"The persistence of schizophrenia is an evolutionary enigma. It is a disabling psychiatric condition that reduces the likelihood of having children, and yet it has roughly 1% lifetime prevalence worldwide. Traditional evolutionary hypotheses, such as those invoking kin selection, mutation-selection balance, and evolutionary mismatch don’t quite explain this." Much the same could be said for gayness. If it were geneti…

"My intuition doesn't explain something, therefore my prejudice is justified." Evolutionary psychology functions better as a tool to present one's prejudices as neutral and without ideology or politics than it does for explaining the world.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#344

Post by johnisgood » Sun, Jun 29, 2025, 10:04 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #310

thrwwXZTYE wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda heard lots of whispers when I was very young (like 6-7) and now I'm 40 and haven't had any such problems. I blamed it on the drugs I got prescripted for sleeping (I had bad allergy and was scratching myself to the point of bleeding during sleep so I got some "pacifying" drugs).

Older antihistamines were anticholinergics, the latter of which are famous for causing vivid auditory, visual and somatic hallucinations.

Also known as "delirium". They cause delirium. Benadryl (DPH) for example does that. It is very dysphoric.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#345

Post by jjallen » Sun, Jun 29, 2025, 10:08 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #77

jjallen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is at least partially genetic. We have a friend whose sister has it and she went to genetics counselors before having kids. They told her that because her sister has it that her kids had a 20% likelihood of developing it. Obviously 20% is way higher than normal.

Be sure you understand what this means. 20% higher chance (of a 1% baseline) is vastly different from a 20% chance.

This is through the grapevine. I thought they said 20% likelihood, not 20% higher likelihood. But this isn’t me and I don’t know the numbers well.

I do know that this woman chose to not use her own eggs for their child. And you would think that going from 1-1.2% would not make you do that. Perhaps there is another variable involved that I am unaware of. Her sister developed it after their parents divorce in her 30s fwiw.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#346

Post by skissane » Sun, Jun 29, 2025, 10:09 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #310

thrwwXZTYE wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda heard lots of whispers when I was very young (like 6-7) and now I'm 40 and haven't had any such problems. I blamed it on the drugs I got prescripted for sleeping (I had bad allergy and was scratching myself to the point of bleeding during sleep so I got some "pacifying" drugs).

Older antihistamines were anticholinergics, the latter of which are famous for causing vivid auditory, visual and somatic hallucinations.

Well, not just drugs-children are more likely to experience hallucinations even without drugs.

I still have vivid memories of experiencing what (in hindsight) I realise were hypnopompic hallucinations, around the age of 6 or 7. I wasn’t taking any regular medications, that I can remember. But, I grew out of it, as kids usually do.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#347

Post by greenaccountpun » Sun, Jun 29, 2025, 10:15 PM UTC

andai wrote: post #146

suzzer99 wrote: post #9

I've lost one of my best friends to what I think is schizophrenia. We don't know because she's cut off all contact with friends and family and refuses to see a doctor. It's definitely psychosis. She thinks she's in some kind of Truman show that she calls "the game". Since none of her friends or family are willing to admit to it, then we must be in on it. We don't know her full family medical history because her dad w…

Cannabis is also a potent psychedelic, and its association with psychosis is well established. (Not to condemn psychedelics, I just think the pendulum has swung a bit too far in the "it's totally harmless" direction.) Could you elaborate on The Game? What did she say about this?

I've used cannabis a handful of times. The first was a bong hit, and I felt a little funny. The second was a bong hit and I was seeing a light show half an hour later. The third was a bong hit and I got paranoia and dry mouth. The fourth was one square of THC chocolate and I felt a little funny and relaxed. The last time was two squares of chocolate. I was out for the evening with visual and auditory hallucinations.

I realize modern preparations are stronger, but the amount is too low, the dosage difference between relaxed and out there is too small, and after doing some research, it sounds like this is a sign I'm either more prone to schizophrenia, it could trigger it, or increase my likelihood of getting it, so the slightly relaxing high isn't worth it.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#348

Post by skissane » Sun, Jun 29, 2025, 10:21 PM UTC

ryanjshaw wrote: post #257

absurdo wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Plenty of intelligent people entertain this possibility, as well as many other possibilities, around how our world works. If they then become obsessed with the idea being a fact and refuse to even consider updating their mental model when presented with evidence contradicting it then they have developed a fixed belief . When that fixed belief is not common among their culture, it becomes a bizarre fixed belief . When…

> When that fixed belief is not common among their culture, it becomes a bizarre fixed belief.

> When, as a result of their obsession with those bizarre fixed beliefs, they are unable to function (hygiene, nutrition, finances, care of their dependents, etc.) - then there’s a problem.

But why does the issue of whether it is “common among their culture” matter? A person unable to function due to a non-bizarre fixed belief has just as big a problem as a person unable to function due to a bizarre fixed belief, if we assume the same degree of functional impairment in each case. The question of whether the belief is “bizarre” seems irrelevant, and possibly even encoding cultural prejudice

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#349

Post by brailsafe » Sun, Jun 29, 2025, 10:24 PM UTC

lazyasciiart wrote: post #332

brailsafe wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you love someone and can manage your life with them, it's important to consider how that'll play out with even a little bit more pressure placed on a situation that thrives on stability. Kids are not a little bit of pressure, and if there's a possibility their mother (or adopted mother) will disappear for periods of time unpredictably, it would make an already extremely demanding obligation that much more ten…

Disappearing unpredictably is one of the less harmful ways it might show up. Imagine having a parent who you literally cannot trust to recognize how to care for you. My aunt is schizophrenic and was not diagnosed until late (as seems to be common, she moved away from family and friends to get away from interference). Her kids were 13 through 5 when she was diagnosed and had serious trauma.

Yep, I have an older friend who'd grown up with a schizophrenic mother who he's had lifelong trauma from. It's a bit horrifying. Incidentally it seems like the genx and beyond in my life never grew up with a framework for either identifying or addressing even something as common as clinical depression or ADHD, let alone the more potentially externally destructive ones like borderline, bipolar, schizophrenia. Seemed like they carried on to raise their kids with a sort of hope that if they ignore it, it'll eventually go away.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#350

Post by skissane » Sun, Jun 29, 2025, 10:36 PM UTC

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #302

throw4847285 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Male vs female differences, including differences in typical sex-specific sexual attraction, are obviously genetic Typical is putting in a lot of work in that sentence. I could rephrase it with the same truth content and make it much more ambiguous. "Many phenotypical sexual differences in humans are obviously genetic. Some very common differences in sex-specific sexual attraction are likely genetic as well. For la…

> Some very common differences in sex-specific sexual attraction are likely genetic as well. For large swaths of sexual attraction, we have absolutely no evidence of a genetic link Sure - it seems there may be a large degree of imprinting as well, but homosexuality does seem to be an important special case given that it typically means lack of descendants. Of course evolution is really about sub-populations and gene-…

> but homosexuality does seem to be an important special case given that it typically means lack of descendants

For much of human history, that has been false. In many societies, there has been strong pressure to (heterosexually) marry, arranged marriages - with the result that most individuals with a homosexual orientation end up participating in heterosexual reproduction-so homosexuality is much less of an evolutionary disadvantage than you’d assume.

Modern Western society puts great emphasis on marrying for love, marrying on the basis of actual attraction rather than social pressure or political calculation, being “true to yourself” - and in such a society, a homosexual orientation does significantly reduce the odds of participation in classical heterosexual reproduction. But modern Western society isn’t normal in world-historical terms, what we consider “normal” is actually rather novel