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Show HN: Octelium – FOSS Alternative to Teleport, Cloudflare, Tailscale, Ngrok

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Re: Show HN: Octelium – FOSS Alternative to Teleport, Cloudflare, Tailscale, Ngrok

#51
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd appreciate if you could provide me a list of those buzzwords so that I can improve the readme.

“A next-gen FOSS self-hosted unified zero trust secure access platform that can operate as a remote access VPN, a ZTNA/BeyondCorp architecture, API/AI gateway, a PaaS, an infrastructure for MCP & A2A architectures or even as an ngrok-alternative and a homelab infrastructure.” Literally every single word of it

It is zero-trust.

I don't trust this.

Re: Show HN: Octelium – FOSS Alternative to Teleport, Cloudflare, Tailscale, Ngrok

#52
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I understand it's hard to concisely define what Octelium is because it is designed as a unified/generic secure/zero trust access platform, a term that almost nobody would relate to. It's more of a generic Kubernetes-like architecture/infrastructure for zero trust secure access that can fit many different use cases (i.e. human to workload and workload to workload environments). Well, it can be used as a typ…

Gentle feedback: if it’s hard to concisely define what Octelium is, it will be hard to convince people to use it. To me this sounds like an L7 identity & access management layer for wireguard, but again I had trouble parsing the readme.

Thank you. I completely understand your point of view. I did put a lot of effort actually trying to come up with a simple concise description that can fit in an HN 80-char wide title but I simply could not do it. If you think about it, other fairly complex projects such as Kubernetes or Istio are also very hard to concisely describe for newcomers. There is always some assumption that potential users of the project are already acquainted with the terms used in modern zero trust architectures and familiar with similar commercial products such as Cloudflare Access, Teleport, StrongDM and many other related products.

Re: Show HN: Octelium – FOSS Alternative to Teleport, Cloudflare, Tailscale, Ngrok

#53
post #49

For everyone who's having a hard time parsing what Octelium does, I found this page to be the clearest explanation: https://octelium.com/docs/octelium/latest/overview/how-octel... It's clearer because, instead of starting with a massive list of everything you could do with Octelium (which is indeed confusing), it starts by explaining the core primitives Octelium is built on, and builds up from there. And it actually…

TailScale is wonderful but they do need competition. I imagine an IPO is on the horizon, and as soon as they enter that phase, nasty price increases are sure to follow unless someone else is nipping hard at their heels.

Hopefully their tolerance to self-hosters (Headscale) doesn't change.

Re: Show HN: Octelium – FOSS Alternative to Teleport, Cloudflare, Tailscale, Ngrok

#54
what if this wasnt something you add after infra but the checkpoint you start with. right now you spin up a vm or db then wrap vpn or firewall around it. but imagine writing access rules first in way : 'team ml can hit service x' or 'web app can hit this backend' and the system wires infra from that.. infra becomes a side effect of access intent. access isnt something you cant guard always( as things move fast, breaks fast), it's may become seed where you can design with.

Re: Show HN: Octelium – FOSS Alternative to Teleport, Cloudflare, Tailscale, Ngrok

#55

Just some feedback to share some problems I personally think you’re going to have and why I suspect you’ll face a healthy amount of skepticism. There is a lack of history of development that ends with a major initial commit of unknown origin, a lack of any public information, a company that does not appear (publicly) to exist, and a product that is going to solve every need that can be imagined by packing it with buz…

Give open source devs a break. We don't know the OP background or his motivations. He might have been working on this for fun. He doesn't need to justify any of this. This is open source and Free software. Take it as it is.

> If a software is hard to explain the purpose of to an average person in a single sentence, you have an uphill battle.

It does. If you use tailscale/cloudflare access and ngrok, the product is pretty well described. If you don't, then probably you don't need this product.

Re: Show HN: Octelium – FOSS Alternative to Teleport, Cloudflare, Tailscale, Ngrok

#56
post #37
post #18

Definitely interested in an open source alternative to Tailscale. The README is way too verbose though. It should explain the project at a glance and have links to docs for the details.

headscale is an open source alternative to tailscale: https://github.com/juanfont/headscale

Headscale is great (I use it) but it is an alternative to the Tailscale control server, not the client applications. Some of those are closed source, and their compatibility with Headscale is not guaranteed.

Re: Show HN: Octelium – FOSS Alternative to Teleport, Cloudflare, Tailscale, Ngrok

#57
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

headscale is an open source alternative to tailscale: https://github.com/juanfont/headscale

Headscale is great (I use it) but it is an alternative to the Tailscale control server, not the client applications. Some of those are closed source, and their compatibility with Headscale is not guaranteed.

Tailscale's client is already open source.

https://tailscale.com/opensource: "The core client code for the Tailscale daemon used across all platforms is open source, and the full client code is open source for platforms that are also open source."

Re: Show HN: Octelium – FOSS Alternative to Teleport, Cloudflare, Tailscale, Ngrok

#58
post #32
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "no buzzwords" would be further in the direction of: "This software let's you set up peer to peer networking between your devices, expose them to the internet, run applications on them, view useful runtime information, and integrate easily with cloud providers and infrastructure you're familiar with."

Thank you. Octelium, however, does not operate as p2p and does not directly connect devices since that by itself contradicts the whole point of zero trust. It provides remote access to resources, or even sub-resources via L7 access control (e.g. allow access to some HTTP paths to some users based on identity/context/request content, etc...), not completely to "devices" or to complete subnets.

How about: “Octelium is a secure, policy-based access gateway to your HTTP services, with both VPN tunnel-based and OAuth/zero-trust modes available. (And it can do a lot more!)”

Re: Show HN: Octelium – FOSS Alternative to Teleport, Cloudflare, Tailscale, Ngrok

#59
post #36

How does it compare to Pangolin?

Well I haven't used Pangolin myself, but Octelium can basically operate as a similar self-hosted remote access tool. It is designed however, to provide much more than just remote access. It provides L7-aware, context-aware ABAC-based access control, it provides L7-aware secretless access without distributing L7 credentials to users, it provides dynamic routing/configuration to upstreams and upstreams credentials based on identity/context, it provides OpenTemeltry-read L7 aware visibility and auditing. Therefore, it's more closer to Cloudflare Access, Teleport Enterprise, StrongDM, etc... than to Pangolin. However, it's also not just a ZTNA in the rigid sense, for example, your applications written in any programming language can just generate fine-grained bearer authentication access tokens via OAuth2 client credentials flow to access protect Services without having to use clients or special SDKs or being aware of Octelium at all. Octelium also operate on top of Kubernetes which makes it seamless for you to provide horizontal scalability and availability as your Cluster's Services, Users, Sessions and simply traffic grow.

Re: Show HN: Octelium – FOSS Alternative to Teleport, Cloudflare, Tailscale, Ngrok

#60
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. Octelium, however, does not operate as p2p and does not directly connect devices since that by itself contradicts the whole point of zero trust. It provides remote access to resources, or even sub-resources via L7 access control (e.g. allow access to some HTTP paths to some users based on identity/context/request content, etc...), not completely to "devices" or to complete subnets.

How about: “Octelium is a secure, policy-based access gateway to your HTTP services, with both VPN tunnel-based and OAuth/zero-trust modes available. (And it can do a lot more!)”

Thank you. I think your description is great but I, as a user myself, might see it as an identity-aware proxy (i.e. something like Pomerium and Ory Oathkeeper IaPs which are great projects) as opposed to a complete Kubernetes-tier platform that does the entire process of remote access, access control, visibility and auditing, user and identtiy management, centralized policy management, etc... from a data-plane and control-plane perspective for an arbitrary number of resources that need to be protected.
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