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Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

psychiatrymargins.com

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Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#51

Post by jackcosgrove »

K0balt wrote: post #34

Random layperson musing: I wonder if schizophrenia (or perhaps psychosis) could be in some way analogous to the LLM temperature function becoming disregulated? I mean, what is the extreme opposite of psychosis? If it is matter of degree, which it seems to be, then there is probably a tuning mechanism. Perhaps too little and you fail to account for factors that might not be apparent but might be guessed or inferred, t…

There was a theory that autism and schizophrenia were opposite ends of a spectrum, but it's fallen into disfavor. The theory went that autism produces mechanical, rigid thought patterns while schizophrenia takes free association too far.

I think it is possible to be diagnosed with both schizophrenia and autism which is why the theory is not considered anymore.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#52

Post by ivape »

marcher wrote: post #40
pfannkuchen wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask how you are sure they haven’t had some novel insight that you just don’t currently understand? Like maybe they are bad at explaining but whatever pattern they noticed is valid? I’m not defending them as I don’t know any details, I’m just curious how you came to be certain about your assessment.

I can't speak for the above person, but what the OP of this comment thread said also tracks with my own experience of schizoaffective disorder: when I'm psychotic, the pattern matching part of my brain goes into overdrive and not only does my brain erroneously fill in the blanks in sensory input (causing hallucinations), it does the same thing on an abstract or logical level with ideas and people. It's easy to fall i…

Do you take adhd medication by any chance?

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#53

Post by daft_pink »

After reading this article, I’m really curious how you would model all kinds of other reproduction reducing behaviors that have become popular in recent years and how they many generations it will take them to be squeezed out of our culture. Like say taking care of a pet instead of having a kid in Korea.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#54

Post by cjbgkagh »

crazygringo wrote: post #35
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also suspect people with schizophrenia that haven't yet started showing symptoms are more likely to take drugs.

Based on what?

The huge number of them who smoke cigarettes prior to their first episode - a different form of self medication. 90% of people with it smoke and there is research indicating a greater likelhood prior to first episode. I’ll have to look up those numbers though. (Edit, seems about 60% at a time when the average US population was at 20%)

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#55

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

PaulHoule wrote: post #42
fragmede wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How scientific.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35091797/

Even that very limited study didn't link stim use to poor teeth - at all. As far as study went, this was it.

    • Stimulant ADHD medication use in adults is associated with decreased bone
     mineral in the skull and thoracic spine.

    • No other areas of axial or appendicular skeleton showed significant
    differences.

    • There was no dose-response effect between stimulant medication use and
    bone mineral density.

    • The overall effect of stimulant medications on adult
    bone health is unclear.
ref: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9062265/

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#56

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #36
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have family with that. The most striking thing, is the absolute certainty of the thinking. They feel as if their thinking is crystal-clear, and that they are the only one that "sees the patterns." Currently, they're doing well. I know of others, that are not so fortunate. It seems that pot is about the worst thing that a schizoaffective/schizophrenic person can use. They are better off chewing tabs of acid. I've no…

Can I ask how you are sure they haven’t had some novel insight that you just don’t currently understand? Like maybe they are bad at explaining but whatever pattern they noticed is valid? I’m not defending them as I don’t know any details, I’m just curious how you came to be certain about your assessment.

I'm not certain, but, in the case of my family member, their "certainty" is that everyone is conspiring to kill them. As I am one of the "conspirators," I can assure you that they are dead wrong.

Also, in my days of yute, I was fairly profligate in the use of ... mind-enhancing chemicals, shall we say. They basically gave me the same exact certainty and "insight."

Once, I decided to write down the marvelous insight that I experienced, while tripping. I wrote a whole bunch of stuff in a notebook, and then read it, a couple of days later.

It was pure gibberish. Made no sense at all.

[EDITED TO ADD] I should say that I had the luxury of having two distinct states of mind, including a "control state," in which to review the ramblings in the "enhanced" state. This is not a luxury that someone suffering from schizoaffective disorder has. They have no idea that their thinking is off.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#57

Post by comrade1234 »

suzzer99 wrote: post #9

I've lost one of my best friends to what I think is schizophrenia. We don't know because she's cut off all contact with friends and family and refuses to see a doctor. It's definitely psychosis. She thinks she's in some kind of Truman show that she calls "the game". Since none of her friends or family are willing to admit to it, then we must be in on it. We don't know her full family medical history because her dad w…

You don't develop schizophrenia in your 50s. It sounds like you track her behavior and habits quite closely?

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#58

Post by jongjong »

alganet wrote: post #44

Completely anectodal: Right after the time I was diagnosed (~36), I started to become weirdly good at some stuff. Music, for example. I've been playing for almost two decades and couldn't progress after a certain level. This changed almost overnight, and I started to learn new instruments very quickly (now I play guitar, bass, drums and piano). I'm not a genius at them, it's not what I'm trying to say. It's just that…

Could be age related. I could never play a musical instrument until my mid thirties. Nobody in my family could. My wife found a Ukulele which was left on the side of the road and which was in good condition and took it home. I started playing just randomly tugging strings to understand the sounds and I kept doing that maybe 10 to 30 mins a day for about 2 months and the tunes became less and less random and now I can improvise full 1 to 2 minute melodies on the spot with multiple strings.

I don't need to plan the melody ahead of time I just pick a few notes that go well together then I pick some starting notes and I just intuitively know how to join them together into a full piece. It's like when I play some notes, my fingers themselves resist certain bad notes and whatever note I end up choosing (high pitch or low pitch) seems to work out every time.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#59

Post by marcher »

ivape wrote: post #52
marcher wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for the above person, but what the OP of this comment thread said also tracks with my own experience of schizoaffective disorder: when I'm psychotic, the pattern matching part of my brain goes into overdrive and not only does my brain erroneously fill in the blanks in sensory input (causing hallucinations), it does the same thing on an abstract or logical level with ideas and people. It's easy to fall i…

Do you take adhd medication by any chance?

I used to on and off in the past, but I found it made me more prone to mania, so I've since stopped. Why do you ask?

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#60

Post by Nevermark »

alganet wrote: post #44

Completely anectodal: Right after the time I was diagnosed (~36), I started to become weirdly good at some stuff. Music, for example. I've been playing for almost two decades and couldn't progress after a certain level. This changed almost overnight, and I started to learn new instruments very quickly (now I play guitar, bass, drums and piano). I'm not a genius at them, it's not what I'm trying to say. It's just that…

> I am highly skeptical of the idea that any genetic component

Something can still be (weakly or strongly) genetic, but not inherited in any direct way. I.e. due to a particular mix of genes.

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