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The Coming Storm: How Mediterranean Water Collapse Could Reshape Britain

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Re: The Coming Storm: How Mediterranean Water Collapse Could Reshape Britain

#11

Post by Filligree »

mkj wrote: post #10

Are more northern countries able to take over some of the production? I'd guess maybe as water declines in southern countries, the temperature rises so more northern latitudes might grow the same crops. Of course it's going to take time for different agriculture regions to get set up.

Northern countries don’t have the soil. Even if you take it for granted that the water, heat and sunlight will be there, it takes millennia to create good farmland. Even with heavy investment it would take decades.

Vertical farms would work, but those work almost anywhere.

Re: The Coming Storm: How Mediterranean Water Collapse Could Reshape Britain

#12

Post by igor47 »

KaiserPro wrote: post #9
HappyPanacea wrote: post #4

Solar is so cheap that desalination is cheap enough that the only thing that will get appreciably more expensive is water intensive products like beef.

Desalination is not just about power, you've have to build and maintain the thing. There are consumables as well.

Also, the brine. Though I assume if water becomes scarce enough, we'll just dump the brine back into the environment and nature be damned as per usual

Re: The Coming Storm: How Mediterranean Water Collapse Could Reshape Britain

#13

Post by KaiserPro »

fintechie wrote: post #7

> It's a crisis measured in hard numbers: reservoir levels, rainfall data, aquifer depletion rates. Of course I went to check the actual numbers from official sources and they tell a different story. Reservoir levels near historical maximum. So much for building an article on "hard numbers" without pointing to sources.

For cypress its half as much water in the reseviours compared to last year: https://www.moa.gov.cy/moa/wdd/Wdd.nsf/page18_en/page18_en?o...

what data are you looking at?

Re: The Coming Storm: How Mediterranean Water Collapse Could Reshape Britain

#14

Post by KaiserPro »

jeffbee wrote: post #3

Stopped reading at "vertical farms" as a solution. It doesn't matter how energy intensive desalination is when the energy input arrives for free from space. People need to get used to not caring about efficiency.

100% agree. ground cover, combined with increasing dwell time is the cheapest and most efficient way to increase water retention.

Re: The Coming Storm: How Mediterranean Water Collapse Could Reshape Britain

#15

Post by pmg101 »

KaiserPro wrote: post #6
nradov wrote: post #2

This is a good, thoughtful analysis. I think many people outside the Mediterranean region are simply unaware of water issues there. As for the UK, I can't understand why they have allowed sustained high immigration rates for decades despite food insecurity and a housing shortage.

> why they have allowed sustained high immigration rates for decades recently its because we need skilled and cheap labour to fill the holes in our health and buisness system. Housing shortages is not a direct immigration issue[1], its a policy issue. People of a certain type do not want high rise buildings near them. people of another different type are really happy because they can now build less and sell for more.…

Isn't it a pyramid scheme where we import younger people to pay for older people's pensions and benefits... unlikely to end well, like all pyramid schemes.

Re: The Coming Storm: How Mediterranean Water Collapse Could Reshape Britain

#16

Post by octo888 »

nradov wrote: post #2

This is a good, thoughtful analysis. I think many people outside the Mediterranean region are simply unaware of water issues there. As for the UK, I can't understand why they have allowed sustained high immigration rates for decades despite food insecurity and a housing shortage.

What food insecurity?

We joined a successful agricultural union (the EEC, in 1973) and remained a member of its successor for decades and had fantastic access to produce, and some of the cheapest food in the EU (also thanks to a highly competitive grocery sector)

Even since leaving, the food supply issues have been very minor.

We may have food insecurity in the future but I'm confused if you're implying we've had any serious food insecurity the last few decades

Re: The Coming Storm: How Mediterranean Water Collapse Could Reshape Britain

#17

Post by bena »

pmg101 wrote: post #15
KaiserPro wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why they have allowed sustained high immigration rates for decades recently its because we need skilled and cheap labour to fill the holes in our health and buisness system. Housing shortages is not a direct immigration issue[1], its a policy issue. People of a certain type do not want high rise buildings near them. people of another different type are really happy because they can now build less and sell for more.…

Isn't it a pyramid scheme where we import younger people to pay for older people's pensions and benefits... unlikely to end well, like all pyramid schemes.

Not necessarily in this case. You have those who pay in, but die before they fully collect. Then the collectors do die off, they aren’t expected to get returns in perpetuity or crazy large returns. Then you have a constant supply of new payees into the system.

Only a devastating collapse of the population would cause it to go tits up

Re: The Coming Storm: How Mediterranean Water Collapse Could Reshape Britain

#18

Post by pixl97 »

pmg101 wrote: post #15
KaiserPro wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why they have allowed sustained high immigration rates for decades recently its because we need skilled and cheap labour to fill the holes in our health and buisness system. Housing shortages is not a direct immigration issue[1], its a policy issue. People of a certain type do not want high rise buildings near them. people of another different type are really happy because they can now build less and sell for more.…

Isn't it a pyramid scheme where we import younger people to pay for older people's pensions and benefits... unlikely to end well, like all pyramid schemes.

I'd say no. A pyramid has a wide base. The problem is the population shape is more of one of a christmas tree. The top is narrow, and it widens at the middle, then you have a trunk that is more narrow.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_K...

The UK doesn't even have that terrible of shape compared to many western countries, but a lot of that is because of immigration.

Countries like Japan, S. Korea, and Italy are going to have far worse problems.

Re: The Coming Storm: How Mediterranean Water Collapse Could Reshape Britain

#19

Post by layer8 »

pmg101 wrote: post #15
KaiserPro wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why they have allowed sustained high immigration rates for decades recently its because we need skilled and cheap labour to fill the holes in our health and buisness system. Housing shortages is not a direct immigration issue[1], its a policy issue. People of a certain type do not want high rise buildings near them. people of another different type are really happy because they can now build less and sell for more.…

Isn't it a pyramid scheme where we import younger people to pay for older people's pensions and benefits... unlikely to end well, like all pyramid schemes.

Population has naturally been a pyramid, historically [0], and works well that way. The current problem is that it isn’t a pyramid anymore [1]. Not having an inverse pyramid (or kite) would already be helpful.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_pyramid

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_pyramid#Demographic...

Re: The Coming Storm: How Mediterranean Water Collapse Could Reshape Britain

#20

Post by HappyPanacea »

KaiserPro wrote: post #9
HappyPanacea wrote: post #4

Solar is so cheap that desalination is cheap enough that the only thing that will get appreciably more expensive is water intensive products like beef.

Desalination is not just about power, you've have to build and maintain the thing. There are consumables as well.

According [0], you need 1451 liter per kg of beef. Sorek B will cost $0.41/m3 [1] so water cost will be 0.59$, cheapest beef I could find in quick google here in Israel is $17.68 per kg so 3.3% increase.

[0]: https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impacts-of-food [1]: https://www.energymonitor.ai/tech/can-desalination-save-a-dr...

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