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A device with a touchscreen and few buttons was obvious

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Re: A device with a touchscreen and few buttons was obvious

#411

Post by esolyt »

nirvana wrote: post #337
esolyt wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they pick up hardware and put them together. Why do you consider this as an insult to Apple? I don't think anybody implied what they are doing is easy. Obviously it isn't. If it were, anybody would easily be able to create a great product.

My comment was in reference to iOS which was not hardware and was not off the shelf. Looking at the hardware, much of the hardware in Apple devices is invented or at least designed by Apple. It is custom, not off the shelf. From the A5 to the unibody machining for the (alleged) next iPhone.

In terms of software, I agree. iOS was revolutionary.

In terms of hardware, I disagree. None of the hardware on Apple devices have been invented. The fact that they are specifically produced for Apple doesn't mean they were invented. We can't count A5 as invention because most ARM licensees design their own SoCs anyway. Samsung's Exynos isn't an invention either, it's just another ARM SoC. But if, for instance, Apple manufactured/designed a new kind of display (like Samsung's AMOLED) then that would count as inventing something hardware wise.

Re: A device with a touchscreen and few buttons was obvious

#412

Post by esolyt »

nirvana wrote: post #306
codeka wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that there were two jurers who were unconvinced about the prior art thing. It seems to me like what actually happened is that, rather than trying to convince those two jurers (i.e. coming to a unanimous decision), they just went with "majority rules". Of course, there's no evidence to suggest that's what they did, but equally there's no evidence to suggest that they eventually went back to that qu…

Instructions are advisory. They are meant to help jurors who are unclear of what the law says. However, they are not shackles on the jurors. Jurors are free to ignore them, and should ignore them when justice requires it. For example, Jurors have the right to find a guy not guilty when caught red handed with marijuana simply because the law is unconstitutional. They have that right and that is intentional in our syst…

"Jurors are free to ignore them, and should ignore them when justice requires it."

And justice required them to use the courts to "send a message" and punish Samsung with more than "just a slap on the wrist"?

Re: A device with a touchscreen and few buttons was obvious

#413

Post by flatline3 »

tomkin wrote: post #409
flatline3 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The groklaw quotes were taken out of context. As far as I can tell, there's no evidence from those quotes that they skipped prior art, so much as skipped the task to move forward on others before circling back around to it. > I don't like to think of Apple as a pure innovator - I think of them more as an assembler. When they see a market in which all the hardware pieces are available and waiting to be put together, t…

> Sigh. I'm sick and tired of people twisting reality to fit an Apple anti-hero narrative. They are just as guilty as any other hardware/software manufacturer which tries to stifle human progress in the name of ego. Let me provide my perspective, as flawed as it may be. In 2006, Nintendo released the Wii. To those who don't know, it, for better or worse (re)introduced motion within the context of video games. Immedia…

Microsoft and Sony didn't copy Nintendo outright.

Stagnation. That's what you get when people duplicate ideas instead of leading with their own.

Re: A device with a touchscreen and few buttons was obvious

#414

Post by TylerE »

tomkin wrote: post #409
flatline3 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The groklaw quotes were taken out of context. As far as I can tell, there's no evidence from those quotes that they skipped prior art, so much as skipped the task to move forward on others before circling back around to it. > I don't like to think of Apple as a pure innovator - I think of them more as an assembler. When they see a market in which all the hardware pieces are available and waiting to be put together, t…

> Sigh. I'm sick and tired of people twisting reality to fit an Apple anti-hero narrative. They are just as guilty as any other hardware/software manufacturer which tries to stifle human progress in the name of ego. Let me provide my perspective, as flawed as it may be. In 2006, Nintendo released the Wii. To those who don't know, it, for better or worse (re)introduced motion within the context of video games. Immedia…

> Today, we know how that story played out. We have PS3 Move and Xbox Kinect

Neither of which has really taken off for gaming. The Wii wasn't really a success either. Sure, they sold a lot of consoles, but the console is sold at - at best - break even (and only there after 3-4 years on the market). All the money is in the game licensing (Paid per copy from the developer to the console maker). Wii owners just don't buy that many games - I remember a study that pegged it at ~half what a typical Xbox owner bought.

Re: A device with a touchscreen and few buttons was obvious

#415

Post by clarky07 »

tomkin wrote: post #409
flatline3 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The groklaw quotes were taken out of context. As far as I can tell, there's no evidence from those quotes that they skipped prior art, so much as skipped the task to move forward on others before circling back around to it. > I don't like to think of Apple as a pure innovator - I think of them more as an assembler. When they see a market in which all the hardware pieces are available and waiting to be put together, t…

> Sigh. I'm sick and tired of people twisting reality to fit an Apple anti-hero narrative. They are just as guilty as any other hardware/software manufacturer which tries to stifle human progress in the name of ego. Let me provide my perspective, as flawed as it may be. In 2006, Nintendo released the Wii. To those who don't know, it, for better or worse (re)introduced motion within the context of video games. Immedia…

I'm not sure how you can remotely compare kinect to wii. Move sure, but kinect isn't even close.

Re: A device with a touchscreen and few buttons was obvious

#416

Post by slantyyz »

freehunter wrote: post #408
slantyyz wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> couldn't connect to blackberry's e-mail server >> it couldn't connect to exchange >> it couldn't send an MMS Didn't realize those were "must-haves" for a smartphone (an enterprise smartphone, maybe), because I never did that with any of my Windows Phones prior to getting an iPhone. I used my Windows Phone for my consulting work, by the way. >> it couldn't multitask or run background apps That's a double edged swor…

*Windows Mobile phone Windows Phone is completely different.

Oops, that's what I meant.

Re: A device with a touchscreen and few buttons was obvious

#417

Post by jonknee »

veemjeem wrote: post #245
jonknee wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other way around actually since the iPhone came out after it. But yes, if you were sent back in time to 2007 you would notice the similarity. I ran a mobile phone news website at the time, the similarity was definitely talked about (see the Engadget link in my OP).

The original iphone had a clean aluminum casing whereas the prada used generic black plastic casing -- I think people could tell them apart back in 2007. Practically all phones on the market were black. The differences were even bigger if you used either device for more than a minute.

And Apple quickly went to all black... The differences between anything Samsung makes and an iPhone are quite apparent too if you use them for a minute.

Re: A device with a touchscreen and few buttons was obvious

#418

Post by tomkin »

TylerE wrote: post #414
tomkin wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sigh. I'm sick and tired of people twisting reality to fit an Apple anti-hero narrative. They are just as guilty as any other hardware/software manufacturer which tries to stifle human progress in the name of ego. Let me provide my perspective, as flawed as it may be. In 2006, Nintendo released the Wii. To those who don't know, it, for better or worse (re)introduced motion within the context of video games. Immedia…

> Today, we know how that story played out. We have PS3 Move and Xbox Kinect Neither of which has really taken off for gaming. The Wii wasn't really a success either. Sure, they sold a lot of consoles, but the console is sold at - at best - break even (and only there after 3-4 years on the market). All the money is in the game licensing (Paid per copy from the developer to the console maker). Wii owners just don't bu…

> Neither of which has really taken off for gaming.

I don't know about that. Last I checked, Kinect was doing well. In fact Kinect Adventures is #1 [1]

> The Wii wasn't really a success either.

Nintendo, until most recently, was the only console manufacturer to actually profit.

[1] http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/7/xbox-360/

Re: A device with a touchscreen and few buttons was obvious

#419

Post by tomkin »

flatline3 wrote: post #413
tomkin wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sigh. I'm sick and tired of people twisting reality to fit an Apple anti-hero narrative. They are just as guilty as any other hardware/software manufacturer which tries to stifle human progress in the name of ego. Let me provide my perspective, as flawed as it may be. In 2006, Nintendo released the Wii. To those who don't know, it, for better or worse (re)introduced motion within the context of video games. Immedia…

Microsoft and Sony didn't copy Nintendo outright. Stagnation. That's what you get when people duplicate ideas instead of leading with their own.

> Stagnation. That's what you get when people duplicate ideas instead of leading with their own.

Right. So the guy who invented the cell phone shouldn't have "copied" the guy who invented the cordless phone. Oh, and the guy who invented the touch screen phone shouldn't be able to make it because the guy who invented the cell phone (which can't exist because of the guy who made the cordless phone says "No") doesn't want someone to make a touchscreen phone.

That's stagnation and that's what you're promoting here. You're just splitting hairs by narrowing the focus to rounded corners, # of buttons, etc.

Truth be told, there are no original inventions here. Apple's products are evolutions of previous hardware created by others – let's not forget that.

Re: A device with a touchscreen and few buttons was obvious

#420

Post by tomkin »

clarky07 wrote: post #415
tomkin wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sigh. I'm sick and tired of people twisting reality to fit an Apple anti-hero narrative. They are just as guilty as any other hardware/software manufacturer which tries to stifle human progress in the name of ego. Let me provide my perspective, as flawed as it may be. In 2006, Nintendo released the Wii. To those who don't know, it, for better or worse (re)introduced motion within the context of video games. Immedia…

I'm not sure how you can remotely compare kinect to wii. Move sure, but kinect isn't even close.

In terms of technology, they are vastly different. In the sense of discovery, market trials and R&D - the Kinect technology is an evolution of the Wii. If Wii did not introduce motion controls, Kinect would not be available. Period. I can validate this claim by the many quotes Microsoft (J Allard, et al.) spewed to the press about what they thought about motion control in video games at the time. This could have easily been Nintendo's argument had they attempted to derail Kinect.
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