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Show HN: Business.txt - Standard Proposal

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Re: Show HN: Business.txt - Standard Proposal

#41

Post by FuzzyDunlop »

oellegaard wrote: post #35
fesja wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We want to be a human friendly file. If we had a JSON or XML file, it would be too complicated for a non-developer to write or read it. On this way, I think it doesn't matter if the website is done in wordpress, drupla, static files, flash, etc. It's just a simple file. Also, we are following the same pattern as the robots.txt file.

I would strongly suggest e.g. JSON or XML - if you can upload a website, the chance are that you could also create something like this. There would of course also be a template where absolute noobs could fill in the details and get correct output. With our current tools, implementing a clear text data storage seems like a pretty stupid idea - everyone would have to implement their own parsing. With e.g. JSON, there a…

YAML, or the format used by Python's configParser or PHP's INI files (don't know what it's called), might be easiest. Less syntax and formatting.

I'm not so sure about the proposal itself, though. For local, small businesses, how much can we assume about technical ability? If they have to pay the people who did their website to keep it up to date, how can we be sure they'll use it?

Re: Show HN: Business.txt - Standard Proposal

#42

Post by ericcholis »

buro9 wrote: post #15

The idea of a text file at the root isn't a bad one, but the format of the document should be far more descriptive. Have you looked at http://schema.org/docs/schemas.html and the examples there? Everything in the example given is encapsulated by schema.org and that would describe it in a way that was unambiguous. I know that schema.org has been dismissed because "The problem is that it's too complicated for a non-dev…

I'm of the same mind that implementing a common interface for Schema.org would be very useful. In many cases, the business.txt file is duplicating information that should be on your site anyway.

My experience with small business clients is that they have no idea what they are doing when it comes to the web. They tend to know exactly what they want, and are usually right. But, they don't know how to translate that to their sites. Usually, it just takes a bit of guidance.

Creating a proper about page for a site that implements schema.org standards makes sense for both the developer and content creator.

Re: Show HN: Business.txt - Standard Proposal

#43

Post by alttab »

Avalaxy wrote: post #3

Wouldn't it be easier if this were XML instead of plain text? I assume the goal is that software can easily interpret the data.

What world do you live in where XML is easier?

Have you ever written a SAX parser? XML parsing is not "easier". Screw the libraries that "do it for you". You still have to understand the tiered data structure, attributes vs content, namespaces,.... the list goes on. Understanding the schema and all that jazz is WAY more difficult than key: value.

edit: Parsing is just as easy. Here is a one-liner in ruby:

business_data = IO.readlines("business.txt").each_with_object({}) {|l, memo| k, v = l.split(':'); memo[k.strip] = v.strip }

Re: Show HN: Business.txt - Standard Proposal

#44

Post by brittohalloran »

oellegaard wrote: post #35
fesja wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We want to be a human friendly file. If we had a JSON or XML file, it would be too complicated for a non-developer to write or read it. On this way, I think it doesn't matter if the website is done in wordpress, drupla, static files, flash, etc. It's just a simple file. Also, we are following the same pattern as the robots.txt file.

I would strongly suggest e.g. JSON or XML - if you can upload a website, the chance are that you could also create something like this. There would of course also be a template where absolute noobs could fill in the details and get correct output. With our current tools, implementing a clear text data storage seems like a pretty stupid idea - everyone would have to implement their own parsing. With e.g. JSON, there a…

Yeah I have to second this. No "non-techie" person will be updating this on their own, for the simple fact that they need to upload it after their done or edit it via ftp... etc. A wordpress plugin would help, but it still lacks great visibility to the business owner.

Re: Show HN: Business.txt - Standard Proposal

#46

Post by becomevocal »

pilif wrote: post #26

So more senseless errors in my error log and more traffic caused by robots requesting a file that doesn't exist? While I applaud the idea, can we please, please have a meta-tag or header that points to the location of this file if it's available? We don't need another favicon.ico nor robots.txt

Second. A meta-tag would make it easier for services to add in mass as well.

Re: Show HN: Business.txt - Standard Proposal

#47

Post by [deleted] »

robotman42 wrote: post #13

Why do business people try to push business standards as technical solutions? That's not what standards are for, they are for technical problems. It looks like DRM to me: a technical solution to a social problem or a broken business model. TL;DR: there are existing solutions, micro-formats for example.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Business.txt - Standard Proposal

#48

Post by delinka »

"Without business.txt he would have to go to all the websites like Yelp and Foursquare and..."

No. No no no. This is not how the Internet is supposed to work. I search for a restaurant online hoping they have a website with this information on it. If it's a chain, I can find the local location and know the information is correct. If it's a local place with a website, the information is probably outdated anyway because they don't edit the site when their menu and hours change ... which means they're not going to edit business.txt to reflect the changes. So I'm really trying to find a phone number to speak to a human or listen to the answering thingy so that I can verify their hours.

This proposal is to help automate updates on other sites when the restaurant changes their menu or their hours. The only way this is going to work is for the computers that help manage the restaurant are also providing information to the website. Need to change the menu? Great, the changes are also pushed to the website. Changing the hours employees can clock in? Comes with a requisite change to operating hours and is reflected on the website.

Re: Show HN: Business.txt - Standard Proposal

#49

Post by Terretta »

hostname.com/business.txt is wrong.

You are supposed to use the /.well-known/ subfolder.

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5785

If you plan to implement a "standard" please try to review the RFCs that have covered this ground before. There's probably already a standard which may fit. If not, there's probably one that's close you could propose a change to. And if you're trying something genuinely new, you'll at least be on the right foundation.

Re: Show HN: Business.txt - Standard Proposal

#50

Post by quadhome »

pilif wrote: post #26

So more senseless errors in my error log and more traffic caused by robots requesting a file that doesn't exist? While I applaud the idea, can we please, please have a meta-tag or header that points to the location of this file if it's available? We don't need another favicon.ico nor robots.txt

You'd rather a robot hit your frontpage— and by association, your application- than hit your 404 static page?

Instead of generating errors from 404s (a lot of noise), try generating errors from the same repeated 404s.

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