Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

spectrum.ieee.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 251 posts

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#11

Post by mcbishop »

slipheen wrote: post #7
dotancohen wrote: post #6

From what I understand, most homes that are connected to both solar and the grid require the grid to be active to produce solar. This is for two reasons. One, not to endanger lineman working on the grid. And two, the solar AC cycle must be synchronized with the grid AC cycle. Are these homes not also connected to the grid? Or is there some technology that addresses these two issues that are in use in Puerto Rico?

If you use a string inverter not a emphase style microinverter, most of them are capable of running without the grid- Particularly if you add any sort of battery system. These use a form of transfer switch like you’d use when you connect a generator- they disconnect the upstream.

You can run sans grid with Enphase (with their "system controller").

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#12

Post by Dylan16807 »

rstupek wrote: post #3
amoshebb wrote: post #2

I love solar, but this "those who can afford microgrids can shield themselves from blackouts" paired with net metering where "the wealthy get paid a premium for excess generation and can buy expensive high-demand power back at a discount" probably aren't steps on the path to improved grid resiliency for any definition other than this weird "no island-wide outages" definition.

The alternative way to look at it is that early adopters get the volume up such that the price comes down to where more people can afford it?

Solar panels are already so cheap that household solar is mostly about the installation price.

And more people affording their own panels is still a lot more expensive than fixing the grid.

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#13

Post by mcbishop »

amoshebb wrote: post #2

I love solar, but this "those who can afford microgrids can shield themselves from blackouts" paired with net metering where "the wealthy get paid a premium for excess generation and can buy expensive high-demand power back at a discount" probably aren't steps on the path to improved grid resiliency for any definition other than this weird "no island-wide outages" definition.

Net metering is gone in most of California (for new solar). I think it's going away in general. Distributed solar supports a more stable grid for everyone (per UL 1741-SB requirements).

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#14

Post by lukan »

numpad0 wrote: post #8
rstupek wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative way to look at it is that early adopters get the volume up such that the price comes down to where more people can afford it?

Solar output is also proportionate to area of sunlight projection. This means the theoretical capacity available to you is proportionate to real estate, area of planetary surface, under your ownership.

And the area you own is theoretical proportionate to your avaibale money.

So yes, rich people can obviously have more of it all, like with everything else that money can buy. But is this really a point worth going in deeper here?

I see the point as in "solar power plus battery is good", creates resillence, please more of it.

Unfair distribution of wealth is a different problem.

And here concreteley the article lacks for me details, what exactly the work on the grid means, if it is really about fossils vs solar, but microgrids that can connect to each other sounds like a pragmatic solution to me.

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#15

Post by lukan »

zie wrote: post #9
dotancohen wrote: post #6

From what I understand, most homes that are connected to both solar and the grid require the grid to be active to produce solar. This is for two reasons. One, not to endanger lineman working on the grid. And two, the solar AC cycle must be synchronized with the grid AC cycle. Are these homes not also connected to the grid? Or is there some technology that addresses these two issues that are in use in Puerto Rico?

This is true, but if you add in local batteries attached to the solar, you can have a device that works in basically all situations. If disconnected from the grid, it can run off battery instead of just not working. I haven't read the OP link yet, but my guess is they are doing something like this: Grid, Solar and batteries.

"Grid, Solar and batteries."

They are doing microgrids, that connect to each other.

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#16

Post by ethan_smith »

dotancohen wrote: post #6

From what I understand, most homes that are connected to both solar and the grid require the grid to be active to produce solar. This is for two reasons. One, not to endanger lineman working on the grid. And two, the solar AC cycle must be synchronized with the grid AC cycle. Are these homes not also connected to the grid? Or is there some technology that addresses these two issues that are in use in Puerto Rico?

Microgrids use specialized inverters with islanding capability and automatic transfer switches that disconnect from the main grid during outages, allowing them to operate independently while maintaining their own frequency regulation.

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#17

Post by bluefirebrand »

lukan wrote: post #14
numpad0 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar output is also proportionate to area of sunlight projection. This means the theoretical capacity available to you is proportionate to real estate, area of planetary surface, under your ownership.

And the area you own is theoretical proportionate to your avaibale money. So yes, rich people can obviously have more of it all, like with everything else that money can buy. But is this really a point worth going in deeper here? I see the point as in "solar power plus battery is good", creates resillence, please more of it. Unfair distribution of wealth is a different problem. And here concreteley the article lacks…

> Unfair distribution of wealth is a different problem

Unfortunately, all problems are eventually going to come down to this. Or many problems are, if not "all"

We can't fix a lot of the problems facing our society and our planet with "only wealthy can afford this" solutions

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#18

Post by lukan »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #17
lukan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the area you own is theoretical proportionate to your avaibale money. So yes, rich people can obviously have more of it all, like with everything else that money can buy. But is this really a point worth going in deeper here? I see the point as in "solar power plus battery is good", creates resillence, please more of it. Unfair distribution of wealth is a different problem. And here concreteley the article lacks…

> Unfair distribution of wealth is a different problem Unfortunately, all problems are eventually going to come down to this. Or many problems are, if not "all" We can't fix a lot of the problems facing our society and our planet with "only wealthy can afford this" solutions

"We can't fix a lot of the problems facing our society and our planet with "only wealthy can afford this" solutions"

And I think, we can't fix a lot of technical problems if we make everything about money distribution.

Besides, solar plus battery became really cheap. And get cheaper every day.

And this work to connect such microgrids is potentially beneficial for poor areas all around the world.

But no, it doesn't solve the issue of extreme poverty, but why would it?

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#19

Post by amoshebb »

mcbishop wrote: post #13
amoshebb wrote: post #2

I love solar, but this "those who can afford microgrids can shield themselves from blackouts" paired with net metering where "the wealthy get paid a premium for excess generation and can buy expensive high-demand power back at a discount" probably aren't steps on the path to improved grid resiliency for any definition other than this weird "no island-wide outages" definition.

Net metering is gone in most of California (for new solar). I think it's going away in general. Distributed solar supports a more stable grid for everyone (per UL 1741-SB requirements).

the article is about Puerto Rico, not California, and specifically mentions net metering.

Re: Puerto Rico's Solar Microgrids Beat Blackout

#20

Post by pmontra »

dotancohen wrote: post #6

From what I understand, most homes that are connected to both solar and the grid require the grid to be active to produce solar. This is for two reasons. One, not to endanger lineman working on the grid. And two, the solar AC cycle must be synchronized with the grid AC cycle. Are these homes not also connected to the grid? Or is there some technology that addresses these two issues that are in use in Puerto Rico?

If your home is isolated from the grid you don't have to worry about syncing your 50/60 Hz. A UPS during a blackout is an example. I experienced it myself.

I have no idea about the hurdles of keeping in sync many batteries in many homes connected together. This is not even something I thought about before the news of the blackout in Spain months ago.

Post reply on HN