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National Archives at College Park, MD, will become a restricted federal facility

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Re: National Archives at College Park, MD, will become a restricted federal facility

#31

Post by treetalker »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #21
treetalker wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abandon all hope, ye who seek reflective reasoning from this government. But my guess is that less public access to national information helps, and does not hinder, a speed-run to autocracy.

I dunno. I'm very much not a Trump fan, but I don't see how restricting access to "national information" would help him. And if it would, how does restricting access to one of them help him? I could more see this as being just random action without any real purpose, or aimed at petty revenge on someone, or something.

Taking your points in reverse order:

> I could more see this as being just random action without any real purpose, or aimed at petty revenge on someone, or something.

This was essentially my first point, and I think we are in agreement.

> I dunno. I'm very much not a Trump fan, but I don't see how restricting access to "national information" would help him. And if it would, how does restricting access to one of them help him?

I did not intend to claim that the closure necessarily helps Trump himself. My point was that reducing access to public information (either wholesale, or by placing additional hurdles) hurts democracy and favors autocracy.

Re: National Archives at College Park, MD, will become a restricted federal facility

#33

Post by efitz »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #26
ggm wrote: post #22

I appreciate analogous cases are often not helpful, but in the UK some institutions like the national library of scotland are so-called "copyright libraries" and they have always restricted access to people who register and declare an interest grounded in research, or some gatekeeping around legitemate need otherwise. In many instances the documents held in these institutions are both rare, and contextually unique. L…

> in the UK some institutions like the national library of scotland are so-called "copyright libraries" and they have always restricted access to people who register and declare an interest grounded in research As an 8yo, I'd walk into the US Library of Congress alone and ask for rare books. I like this way best.

Until some random crazy person exercises the same right and destroys an irreplaceable rare book.

You have to get a library card for the library. I don’t see why there is so much outrage over this, and I think the timing is more about budget cuts than about Trump [caveat- firing the archivist might have been personal].

I find the arguments that “he just wants to sow distrust” etc. are completely unbelievable; he has bigger fish to fry than micromanaging the national archives.

Re: National Archives at College Park, MD, will become a restricted federal facility

#34

Post by efitz »

caseysoftware wrote: post #27
ggm wrote: post #22

I appreciate analogous cases are often not helpful, but in the UK some institutions like the national library of scotland are so-called "copyright libraries" and they have always restricted access to people who register and declare an interest grounded in research, or some gatekeeping around legitemate need otherwise. In many instances the documents held in these institutions are both rare, and contextually unique. L…

It's normal in the US too.. the Library of Congress has required it for certain collections for decades (that I know of): https://www.loc.gov/research-centers/use-the-library/researc...

I was surprised when I saw this article and realized that until now anyone could just walk in off the street.

Re: National Archives at College Park, MD, will become a restricted federal facility

#35

Post by cogman10 »

LastTrain wrote: post #13
recury wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Staffing cuts, most likely: https://www.govexec.com/workforce/2025/06/trump-administrati...

How does adding a new bureaucratic vetting process in room 1000 make things more efficient? How does adding additional security, as stated, do that?

I think if you take the view of "they just want to shut down the central government" you'll get answers to why they are doing things.

The first step in killing the national archive is making it worthless. Adding extra stupid barriers to access data helps with that goal. The harder it is to use, the more likely a Coca-cola archive sponsored by taco bell will be able to compete.

Re: National Archives at College Park, MD, will become a restricted federal facility

#36

Post by canyp »

LastTrain wrote: post #18
whalesalad wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why should they feel obligated to supply any kind of rationale for their actions? because it is a public service that we are all funding. why would you think anything otherwise?

I keep forgetting what I think of as plainly facetious could be someone’s actual belief.

Yeah, I saw your edit. You can't use sarcasm on the internet anymore. How many downvotes did that cost you?

Re: National Archives at College Park, MD, will become a restricted federal facility

#37

Post by cogman10 »

efitz wrote: post #33
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in the UK some institutions like the national library of scotland are so-called "copyright libraries" and they have always restricted access to people who register and declare an interest grounded in research As an 8yo, I'd walk into the US Library of Congress alone and ask for rare books. I like this way best.

Until some random crazy person exercises the same right and destroys an irreplaceable rare book. You have to get a library card for the library. I don’t see why there is so much outrage over this, and I think the timing is more about budget cuts than about Trump [caveat- firing the archivist might have been personal]. I find the arguments that “he just wants to sow distrust” etc. are completely unbelievable; he has b…

> You have to get a library card for the library. I don’t see why there is so much outrage over this

Why do they need a "legitimate business need" to access the material? Why aren't they instead requiring a simple library card and/or identification.

That's why people are upset. This is more than just requiring a library card.

> Until some random crazy person exercises the same right and destroys an irreplaceable rare book.

Every library I've been in with rare books requires supervision by the archivist if you want to browse them. Sometimes only the archivist can handle the book.

The fact that these rare books aren't all being destroyed in mass tells me that this system works pretty well at screening crazy people from destroying books (and, frankly, there's not a whole lot of people dedicated to destroying rare books).

Re: National Archives at College Park, MD, will become a restricted federal facility

#38

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #21
treetalker wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abandon all hope, ye who seek reflective reasoning from this government. But my guess is that less public access to national information helps, and does not hinder, a speed-run to autocracy.

I dunno. I'm very much not a Trump fan, but I don't see how restricting access to "national information" would help him. And if it would, how does restricting access to one of them help him? I could more see this as being just random action without any real purpose, or aimed at petty revenge on someone, or something.

More broadly, ignorance and stupidity amongst the general population benefit some politicians.

Re: National Archives at College Park, MD, will become a restricted federal facility

#39

Post by pwinkeler »

efitz wrote: post #34
caseysoftware wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's normal in the US too.. the Library of Congress has required it for certain collections for decades (that I know of): https://www.loc.gov/research-centers/use-the-library/researc...

I was surprised when I saw this article and realized that until now anyone could just walk in off the street.

Why surprised? Didn't US taxpayers pay for the collection of all this information? Now only those with "legitimate" interest can get access? I would very much like to know what the reasoning behind this move is. Although I suspect that as per usual, a reason will not be forthcoming. But who knows, perhaps the Epstein files are now being kept there, LOL?

Re: National Archives at College Park, MD, will become a restricted federal facility

#40

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

goda90 wrote: post #14
LastTrain wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who knows, why should they feel obligated to supply any kind of rationale for their actions? [edit: /s]Here is the sum total of detail they have provided: “ All researchers must apply and present a researcher card, which may be obtained in Room 1000. This ensures that proper identification is on file for all individuals accessing the building to establish a legitimate business purpose. Abuse of any researcher registr…

Every aspect of government should provide the public with rationale for its actions unless providing that rationale is an actual threat to national security or an individual's freedoms. And any time they can't provide rationale for those reasons, an independent agency should review them confidentially. You can't have government by the people, for the people, of the people without accountability.

This is the sort of bureaucratic nonsense people actually rail against.

You're assuming you'd get something truthful or informative out of that process, when in reality you'll get the opposite due to the inherit (dis)incentives.

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