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Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

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Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#291

Post by cogman10 »

platevoltage wrote: post #253
spiderice wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reminder: Support of free speech requires support of the right to say things that you loathe by people you hate or you don’t support free speech. No it doesn't. You're putting arbitrary limits to suit your views. You can support free speech for American citizens and also support using a foreigner's speech to determine whether or not we allow them into the country. That's just smart border policy. We should be vetti…

Absolutely not. If you find out that the person who is trying to enter the country has made creditable threats to the USA, Sure, but that's also illegal for a citizen to do. Saying that the president is a poopy-head on Facebook doesn't count, and says nothing about what said person's behavior will be like once they are in our borders.

Pretty much where I stand. Some speech is criminalized for good reason (for example, planning to commit a crime). However, barring that, no speech should penalized. In particular, speech criticizing actions of the government or a government official should be especially protected.

The bar for when speech should be criminalized/penalized by the government should be very high.

For private entities I'm far more tolerate of censorship especially since it cuts both ways. Allowing or banning speech can directly impact a company's bottom line and should be regulated by customers choosing to interact with or avoid platforms.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#292

Post by anigbrowl »

School-Cotton wrote: post #142
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What percentage of unnecessary and abusive jailings would you - as a rational person - consider acceptable?

(Not the person you originally replied to). Zero, but that's not the same question. If something I think is unacceptable happens at a low rate, the fact that I think it's bad doesn't mean it's necessarily rational to change one's travel plans because of it, if the rate is low enough. If I go to Iceland, there is some nonzero chance I'll be killed in a surprise volcanic eruption, but I wouldn't let that deter me from…

some nonzero chance I'll be killed in a surprise volcanic eruption

Why would you compare an unpredictable natural risk with one stemming from human behavior and government policy? This is like saying speeding limits are a bad idea because some people are killed by lightning.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#293

Post by platevoltage »

tartoran wrote: post #239
School-Cotton wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

East Germany was not a fascist state, it was an explicitly anti-fascist state. Horribly authoritarian, with wanton disregard for human rights, yes, but not "fascist".

Yeah, they were a democracy:) German Democratic Republic (GDR). Same with NK: Democratic People's Republic of Korea

You think you're being clever here. East Germany was essentially the USSR's particular brand of Authoritarianism. No one is making the claim that they were a democracy. Believe it or not, there is a difference between Fascism and Authoritarian Communism.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#294

Post by mvdtnz »

USA is a country I have always wanted to visit. No more. I will never set foot in your country simply because I refuse to deal with your border force. There are plenty of other countries out there that won't treat me like a criminal. Have you ever dealt with Japanese border staff? They could hardly be more grateful to welcome you.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#295

Post by eesmith »

jwkerr wrote: post #107

Is this a reputable source? Is it a coincidence that the subject shares the name Mads Mikkelsen, or is this just bad reporting?

Can you read Norwegian? https://www.nettavisen.no/nyheter/to-bilder-spolerte-drommef... and https://www.nordlys.no/mads-sin-drommereise-til-usa-spolert-...

Coincidence.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#296

Post by jjkaczor »

izolate wrote: post #187
pixelesque wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it's that high with loads of Canadians not visiting the US. I planned last year to stop off in Hawaii and Seattle on the way from NZ to the UK this May, but in March this year I altered that and just did Vancouver instead as the stop-off. I know several friends and colleages who have also done similar (even two didn't go to weddings of friends in the US).

You're exaggerating the significance of Canadians in US tourism statistics. NY and MA have larger populations than ON and QC, Canada's two largest provinces. Therefore, even "loads" is a relatively small number.

Then why are all the border states, towns and cities (and their elected representatives) begging Canadian tourists to come back, with endless advertisements, appeals to our historic friendship, temporarily re-naming streets ("Canada Street", really? Can't wait for the photo-op of an ICE raid happening there) and even silly incentives (like a 3-pack of free golf balls in one case)...?

Yeah, good luck downplaying the 12+ billion the US tourism industry is about to lose this year.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#297

Post by School-Cotton »

smsm42 wrote: post #276
School-Cotton wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

East Germany was not a fascist state, it was an explicitly anti-fascist state. Horribly authoritarian, with wanton disregard for human rights, yes, but not "fascist".

Strictly speaking, yes. It was a totalitarian communist state, though people often use "fascist" to mean any totalitarian state, even if fascism is only one of many ways a totalitarian state can be implemented.

> It was a totalitarian communist state, though people often use "fascist" to mean any totalitarian state

Indeed, but those people are wrong. It would be like calling Jerry Falwell an Islamist extremist. Maybe they are bad for vaguely similar reasons but it is still inaccurate.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#298

Post by perihelions »

I think the other story from earlier this week makes a better anchoring point for discussion[0], thought it's obvious why it was less successful (long-form New Yorker article vs. one funny picture—the funny picture *usually* wins. This is the internet). It's a lot clearer fact-pattern:

>"“Look, we both know why you are here,” the agent told me. He identified himself to me as Adam, though his colleagues referred to him as Officer Martinez. When I said that I didn’t, he looked surprised. “It’s because of what you wrote online about the protests at Columbia University,” he said."

[0] https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/how-my-reporting-on-... ("How My Reporting on the Columbia Protests Led to My Deportation")

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44318330

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#299

Post by docmars »

paxys wrote: post #8

Wonder what the "political correctness is bad" "nobody is allowed to crack jokes anymore" "cancel culture is out of control" crowd will say about this one...

As a deplorable myself, I disagree with this decision and think it's ridiculous - but I do find the nature of it quite funny still.

Also remember that JD Vance himself has plenty of air time laughing at these memes, and they aren't considered threatening like calling out Biden's cognitive decline with memes making fun of it.

The overall response to memes of this nature are very different on either side. One side wants to censor the entire internet and penalize people for daring to share something politically incorrect, while the other caught an outsider who may harbor threatening sentiments about our nation, with the intent to harm - although I sincerely don't think that's the case here.

Part of the irony here is that you'll more likely find a right-winger with more JD Vance memes on their phone than this guy.

The mass-censorship has a much deeper weight to it than inconveniencing 1 tourist, and I think it's a little surprising this needs to be explained.

Re: Man 'refused entry into US' as border control catch him with bald JD Vance meme

#300

Post by platevoltage »

keybored wrote: post #228
supertrope wrote: post #2

A teacher in school told me about the time they visited East Germany. Armed guards poked though his luggage. It's a slippery slope toward fascism.

I think East Germany was the opposite of fascism. At least compared to West Germany.

This is what we get when the American right wing conflates the two terms on TV for years and years. Don't like the definition of a word? just change it.
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