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FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

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241–250 of 690 posts

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#241

Theoretically, credit should be used for one thing: to make more money. (not less) However, instead of using it to buy or construct a machine to triple what you can produce in an hour, the average person is using it to delay having to work that hour at all, in exchange for having to work an hour and six minutes sometime later. At some point, you run out of hours available and the house of cards collapses. i.e., credi…

For the average consumer, debt is selling its future self as slave.

Which is a good deal if the slave you sell is dead. When there's no future, selling the nonfuture for the price of a future is a good deal.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#242
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Affirm can go up to 60 months on larger purchases A bunch of tiny loans does not loom good

Urban myth. I successfully applied for a mortgage with ~30 credit cards open. Nobody batted an eye, or even commented on it. They looked at balances and credit score. Balances were almost all zero and credit score was excellent. A hundred small loans that were all paid off on time over the last decade is extremely helpful getting you a mortgage, it doesn't hurt.

> Balances were almost all zero and credit score was excellent

Not the same.

> hundred small loans that were all paid off on time over the last decade is extremely helpful getting you a mortgage

Again, not the same.

Affirm can be worse than credit cards because credit cards are a single line of credit of X size. The people using it don’t realize that a bunch of tiny lines of credit add up to a larger one ultimately and they can find themselves overleveraged.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#243
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a theory, but it flies directly in the face of reality which is that nearly every retailer on the planet would prefer more wealthy customers.

Eh, in the same way a lot of retailers offer student discounts, they want to meet everyone at their maximum spending limit to capture more of the demand curve. It doesn’t have to be one or the other; not offering BNPL loans to wealthy customers aren’t likely to tangibly affect sales of that group.

Students are future wealthy customers.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. You can rent and you can take the bus. Or rent and buy a crazy cheap old used car. A house and a decent car are not primarily about making money. They're about your quality of life. > And all recommend not using credit cards and instead an emergency fund if you lose your job. And if you already used your emergency fund on, say, a medical emergency...?

8 years ago I bought a house. My monthly rent was 1300 and mortgage/escrow/repair savings were instead 2000. Rent went up $100-$200 a year. My son is looking for rentals in our same community and the equivalent rental to what I had is now around $3000. Even ignoring appreciation, in the long term there was a cash flow savings.

> My son is looking for rentals in our same community and the equivalent rental to what I had is now around $3000.

Good for you. Bad for your son or anyone living in your community.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#245
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a one-time effect, though. Or at least, an effect that only changes periodically (and should reverse) when interest rates change. 30-year mortgages have been standard in the US for most of my life, and houses have gotten a lot more expensive during that time.

The effect may pause when interest rates change, but it's unlikely to reverse significantly. People who have homes now aren't going to want to sell for less than they paid for them, so there's a lot of inertia against prices going down.

The home ownership rate in the USA is 65%. If house prices start going down, money will be printed until they start going back up.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#246

Theoretically, credit should be used for one thing: to make more money. (not less) However, instead of using it to buy or construct a machine to triple what you can produce in an hour, the average person is using it to delay having to work that hour at all, in exchange for having to work an hour and six minutes sometime later. At some point, you run out of hours available and the house of cards collapses. i.e., credi…

I like to think of it as "debt productivity" - for every $1 of debt, the result of utilizing that should be more that $1 + interest.

Consumer debt, obviously, almost never follows that logic.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#248
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, because status matters more than finances. Getting rich may be extremely unlikely if not outright impossible. Looking rich to your peers (and "feeling rich") on the other hand may just be a few years worth of small affordable installments away - even if it's completely superficial and short-lived. And entire industries will literally spend your every waking second trying to convince you that buying their produc…

It has nothing to do with credit. The whole buy-now-pay-later, 0% rates or pay-day loans industry came much later here. The same goes for predatory marketing industry. When I went to elementary school everyone was poor as it was a year after communism collapsed. People were still spending their last money on shiny things back then even if those shiny things weren't as shiny as they are today. >>Getting rich may be ex…

I think you're half right. But there are cultures in which people save money. (You can just run a web search for "savings rate".)

My hypothesis is that "human" nature does play a role, specifically a very general phenomenon in animal psychology called "observational learning". If you see people around you who saved money and it worked out for them, you're more likely to imitate those people. Saving money probably isn't instinctive for the vast majority, but that doesn't mean it's unattainable.

Taking the contrapositive, if we look at cultures where people don't save money, it's probably because of a lack of successful role models. Saving money hasn't worked out for people in that culture in the past, so there's nobody to imitate. There are always going to be a few people who do save money, but if they get wiped out by medical debt, rampant hyperinflation, or some other systemic crises, or if the country's bankruptcy laws are so generous that their spendthrift counterparts ultimately live better than they do, then their behavior is less likely to catch on.

In the US, savings culture has been decimated by years of QE and ZIRP, so the people who poured all of their money into housing and stocks did better than the cautious types. Skeptics have claimed for years that this will lead to an awful hangover. We'll see.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#249
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A mortgage doesn’t make money, but it (can) enable spending less money. If you buy a place such that interest, maintenance, insurance, taxes and the opportunity cost of not being able to easily relocate are less than rent, then you have saved the difference. It’s also a way to force saving, which is psychologically useful (and thus valuable).

If you buy a house for 500k on a 5% mortgage over 25 years when you are 25, and you plan to live until you are 85, you will live there for 60 years. It will cost you 35k a year for 25 years, or 875k a year After 25 years you have no more expenses. If instead you rent it for 20k a year, increasing with 2% inflation each year, by year 25 you're paying 33k a year in rent, and by year 60 you're paying 66k a year. Over 60…

> You'd have to invest the savings and get way higher than inflation returns to break even.

You say that like it's a difficult thing to do.

S&P500 is up 710% since 1996. Gold is up 92% since 2012.

Personally, the rent control is the best part of a mortgage and even though renting is typically better, I'm fine paying a premium for that. That said, good luck getting somebody to loan you 900k so you can play the stock market; it's much easier to get that for a house though.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#250

So are some of us going to get penalized for not having a buy-now-pay-later history?

Depends on your definition of 'penalized'. FICO is all about identifying good ROI candidates.

Say you are a lender, you want someone who constantly uses credit, always pays their bills and has the capacity take on new debt. That's what FICO is for.

It's not some consumer reward system. It's not your score to game, it's a score on you for companies to game. Quit playing the game.

Credit score NULL.

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