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FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

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Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#111

Post by bonoboTP »

vintermann wrote: post #106
PostOnce wrote: post #13

Theoretically, credit should be used for one thing: to make more money. (not less) However, instead of using it to buy or construct a machine to triple what you can produce in an hour, the average person is using it to delay having to work that hour at all, in exchange for having to work an hour and six minutes sometime later. At some point, you run out of hours available and the house of cards collapses. i.e., credi…

Are you familiar with the boots theory of socioeconomic unfairness?

That's basically a special case of the Matthew principle.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#112

Post by azthecx »

john01dav wrote: post #98
eptcyka wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vast majority of new car sales will not let the new owner make more money and were financed with debt. If all of those buyers bought used for cash, nobody would be able to afford used cars for cash. It really is only businesses that can convert debt into income, most consumers do not want to. There is nothing I can spend on to get a higher hourly rate.

You can buy investment properties to convert debt to income and get nice returns. While this is technically a business, there are ways to make it quite passive and thus more like an investment than a business. Margin stock accounts also exist, although I don't know enough to know what situations it makes sense to use them in.

There are arguments to be made, especially if you're young and just starting out to take a reasonable amount of margin and kickstart your compounding growth.

Say you just started working, have no use for your money and are willing to bet 20k on index funds vs a 90% market drop, you should be able to take 2k in leverage and set up your position be auto closed.

But of course as you have more money this type of market exposure starts shifting as you have shorter timer horizons to rebuild and are instead going into more of a wealth conservation mode.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#113

Post by drexlspivey »

Tadpole9181 wrote: post #75
SoftTalker wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most of them, interest accrues from the date of purchased but is not charged if you pay on time. If you don’t, you owe all the back interest from day one.

Ah, that's the scam. Yet another poor tax, then? The rich get interest on money they already spent, the poor get an illusion of safety followed by even more destitution?

Ah yes, the big scam of offering zero interest unsecured loans to anyone without even running a credit check. These companies are bound to have big losses when things go south because they literally offer you free money.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#114

Post by bonoboTP »

candiddevmike wrote: post #24
PostOnce wrote: post #13

Theoretically, credit should be used for one thing: to make more money. (not less) However, instead of using it to buy or construct a machine to triple what you can produce in an hour, the average person is using it to delay having to work that hour at all, in exchange for having to work an hour and six minutes sometime later. At some point, you run out of hours available and the house of cards collapses. i.e., credi…

For a lot of folks, credit is the only way they're surviving on something close to minimum wage. Or credit was the only "safety net" they had during a rough time. Almost none of these people have the kind of collateral needed to use credit to truly transform their lives, and the government assistance for that is seriously lacking in the US (SBA loans are terrible, and you need enough money to cover your own salary un…

You can't really survive on that. It's a snowballing situation. It's perhaps a strategy to avert impending catastrophe but it's like pitching an airplane down to gain speed when the engine is stalling. If it gets you to restart the engine the brief nosedive may let you survive, but if you have to keep turning the nose more and more vertical, the you're gonna meet the ground.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#115

Post by thrance »

gottorf wrote: post #38
candiddevmike wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a lot of folks, credit is the only way they're surviving on something close to minimum wage. Or credit was the only "safety net" they had during a rough time. Almost none of these people have the kind of collateral needed to use credit to truly transform their lives, and the government assistance for that is seriously lacking in the US (SBA loans are terrible, and you need enough money to cover your own salary un…

> credit is the only way they're surviving on something close to minimum wage. Or credit was the only "safety net" they had during a rough time In my experience, the average American has no concept of saving money, and those below average even less. It's funny to me that America gets flak from all over the world for having no social safety net; if this was actually true, you'd expect to see people put aside a bit of…

I'm picturing you in my head as one of those 19th century Englishmen, writing about how being poor is a moral failure and the famine in Ireland is actually a punishment from God and thus nothing should be done about it.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#116

Post by avianlyric »

john01dav wrote: post #98
eptcyka wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vast majority of new car sales will not let the new owner make more money and were financed with debt. If all of those buyers bought used for cash, nobody would be able to afford used cars for cash. It really is only businesses that can convert debt into income, most consumers do not want to. There is nothing I can spend on to get a higher hourly rate.

You can buy investment properties to convert debt to income and get nice returns. While this is technically a business, there are ways to make it quite passive and thus more like an investment than a business. Margin stock accounts also exist, although I don't know enough to know what situations it makes sense to use them in.

This has the rather tone deaf sound of “if you just had financial security, you wouldn’t need to use loans to survive, then you could use them to invest!”.

Which rather misses the point that many people using these tools don’t have financial security, and don’t have the option to invest like that.

Saying that mortgages can be used to buy investment properties doesn’t change the fact that most people use them to provide basic physical security. I.e. a literal roof over their head, that they can’t be taken away with little notice by their landlord for reasons completely beyond their control.

I’ve you’ve never grown up in an environment where the roof over your head isn’t a certainty, and indeed having a different roof over your head every few years is a certainty. Then it can be rather hard to understand why not everyone considers property just an investment opportunity.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#117

Post by avianlyric »

msgodel wrote: post #55
PostOnce wrote: post #13

Theoretically, credit should be used for one thing: to make more money. (not less) However, instead of using it to buy or construct a machine to triple what you can produce in an hour, the average person is using it to delay having to work that hour at all, in exchange for having to work an hour and six minutes sometime later. At some point, you run out of hours available and the house of cards collapses. i.e., credi…

I tried using one of these offering a 0% intro APR to finance an upgrade to the boat I eventually moved into (saving me 10s of thousands in rent.) They wouldn't let me do it despite having an upper 700s credit score. It's not clear to me how they pick people to lend to.

Yeah a high credit score isn’t what that lender is looking for. They don’t make money of people who actually repay the loans, indeed they tend to loose rather a lot (cost of capital + cost of account admin).

If someone is offering you a 0% APR loan, it’s either because they’re hoping you’ll move your loans to them, and become unable to leave once the 0% period has ended. Or they’re trying to sell something else (either more of something, or the same thing at a higher price), and want use consumer debt to artificially increase market demand.

You upgrading a boat, so you can save money in the long term, is literally the opposite outcome they’re looking for here.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#118

Post by andruby »

PostOnce wrote: post #13

Theoretically, credit should be used for one thing: to make more money. (not less) However, instead of using it to buy or construct a machine to triple what you can produce in an hour, the average person is using it to delay having to work that hour at all, in exchange for having to work an hour and six minutes sometime later. At some point, you run out of hours available and the house of cards collapses. i.e., credi…

Do you also think that way about buying a house with a mortgage (credit)? I don't.

A mortgage isn't used to make more money. It's used so people can own a house after saving for a few years, rather than waiting until they've saved for a few decades.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#119

Post by klabb3 »

bonoboTP wrote: post #114
candiddevmike wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a lot of folks, credit is the only way they're surviving on something close to minimum wage. Or credit was the only "safety net" they had during a rough time. Almost none of these people have the kind of collateral needed to use credit to truly transform their lives, and the government assistance for that is seriously lacking in the US (SBA loans are terrible, and you need enough money to cover your own salary un…

You can't really survive on that. It's a snowballing situation. It's perhaps a strategy to avert impending catastrophe but it's like pitching an airplane down to gain speed when the engine is stalling. If it gets you to restart the engine the brief nosedive may let you survive, but if you have to keep turning the nose more and more vertical, the you're gonna meet the ground.

Good analogy.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#120

Post by leereeves »

andruby wrote: post #118
PostOnce wrote: post #13

Theoretically, credit should be used for one thing: to make more money. (not less) However, instead of using it to buy or construct a machine to triple what you can produce in an hour, the average person is using it to delay having to work that hour at all, in exchange for having to work an hour and six minutes sometime later. At some point, you run out of hours available and the house of cards collapses. i.e., credi…

Do you also think that way about buying a house with a mortgage (credit)? I don't. A mortgage isn't used to make more money. It's used so people can own a house after saving for a few years, rather than waiting until they've saved for a few decades.

Often, a mortgage is either used to make money (from rising house prices) or save money (when the mortgage is cheaper than rent).
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