He already had a rationalist “coming out” like ages ago. Dude just make up your mind
Guess I'm a rationalist now
91–100 of 1001 posts
Re: Guess I'm a rationalist now
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
What the person you are replying to is saying that some things are not reducible, i.e. the the vast array of complexity and detail is all relevant.
That's a really hard belief to justify. And what implications would that position have? Should biologists give up?
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Re: Guess I'm a rationalist now
#93"I'm a Rationalist"
"Here are some labels I identify as"
So they arent rational enough to understand first principles don't objectively exist.
They were corrupted by words of old men, and have built a foundation of understanding on them. This isnt rationality, but rather Reason based.
I consider Instrumentalism and Bayesian epistemology to be the best we can get towards knowledge.
I'm going to be a bit blunt and not humble at all, this person is a philosophical inferior to myself. Their confidence is hubris. They haven't discovered epistemology. There isnt enough skepticism in their claims. They use black and white labels and black and white claims. I remember when I was confident like the author, but a few empirical pieces of evidence made me realize I was wrong.
"it is a habit of mankind to entrust to careless hope what they long for, and to use sovereign reason to thrust aside what they do not fancy."
Re: Guess I'm a rationalist now
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's possible, but I think that's just a general human response when you feel like you're trapped between a rock and a hard place. I don't buy the marketing angle, because it doesn't actually make sense to me. Fear draws eyeballs, sure, but it just seems otherwise nakedly counterproductive, like a burger chain advertising itself on the brutality of its factory farms.
> like a burger chain advertising itself on the brutality of its factory farms It’s rather more like the burger chain decrying the brutality as a reason for other burger chains to be heavily regulated (don’t worry about them; they’re the guys you can trust and/or they are practically already holding themselves to strict ethical standards) while talking about how delicious and juicy their meat patties are. I agree abo…
That is how I normally hear the marketing theory described when people go into it in more detail.
I'm glad you ran with my burger chain metaphor, because it illustrates why I think it doesn't work for an AI company to intentionally try and advertise themselves with this kind of strategy, let alone ~all the big players in an industry. Any ordinary member of the burger-eating public would be turned off by such an advertisement. Many would quickly notice the unsaid thing; those not sharp enough to would probably just see the descriptions of torture and be less likely on the margin to go eat there instead of just, like, safe happy McDonald's. Analogously we have to ask ourselves why there seems to be no Andreessen-esque major AI lab that just says loud and proud, "Ignore those lunatics. Everything's going to be fine. Buy from us." That seems like it would be an excellent counterpositioning strategy in the 2025 ecosystem.
Moreover, if the marketing theory is to be believed, these kinds of psuedo-ads are not targeted at the lowest common denominator of society. Their target is people with sway over actual regulation. Such an audience is going to be much more discerning, for the same reason a machinist vets his CNC machine advertisements much more aggressively than, say, the TVs on display at Best Buy. The more skin you have in the game, the more sense it makes to stop and analyze.
Some would argue the AI companies know all this, and are gambling on the chance that they are able to get regulation through and get enshrined as some state-mandated AI monopoly. A well-owner does well in a desert, after all. I grant this is a possibility. I do not think the likelihood of success here is very high. It was higher back when OpenAI was the only game in town, and I had more sympathy for this theory back in 2020-2021, but each serious new entrant cuts this chance down multiplicatively across the board, and by now I don't think anyone could seriously pitch that to their investors as their exit strategy and expect a round of applause for their brilliance.
Re: Guess I'm a rationalist now
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
rationalism got pretty lame the last 2-3 years. imo the peak was trying to convince me to donate a kidney. post-rationalism is where all the cool kids are and where the best ideas are at right now. the post rationalists consistently have better predictions and the 'rationalists' are stuck arguing whether chickens suffer more getting factory farmed or chickens cause more suffering eating bugs outside. they also let SF…
Where do the post rats hang out these days? I got involved in the stoa during covid until the online community fragmented. Are there still events & hangouts?
Not "post rat", but r/SneerClub is good for criticisms of rationalists (some from former rationalists)
Re: Guess I'm a rationalist now
#96[flagged]
Re: Guess I'm a rationalist now
#97The article made me think deeper about what rubs me the wrong way about the whole movement I think there is some inherent tension btwn being "rational" about things and trying to reason about things from first principle.. And the general absolutist tone of the community. The people involved all seem very... Full of themselves ? They don't really ever show a sense of "hey, I've got a thought, maybe I haven't considere…
The rationalist discussions rarely consider what should be the baseline assumption of what if one or more of the logical assumptions or associations are wrong. They also tend to not systematically plan to validate. And in many domains - what could hold true for one moment can easily shift.
100%
Rationalism is an ideal, yet those who label themselves as such do not realize their base of knowledge could be wrong.
They lack an understanding of epistemology and it gives them confidence. I wonder if these 'rationalists' are all under age 40, they havent seen themselves fooled yet.
Re: Guess I'm a rationalist now
#98Since intuitive and non-rational thinking are demonstrably rational in the face of incomplete information, I guess we’re all rationalists. Or that’s how I’m rationalizing it, anyway.
Re: Guess I'm a rationalist now
#99The article made me think deeper about what rubs me the wrong way about the whole movement I think there is some inherent tension btwn being "rational" about things and trying to reason about things from first principle.. And the general absolutist tone of the community. The people involved all seem very... Full of themselves ? They don't really ever show a sense of "hey, I've got a thought, maybe I haven't considere…
My main problem with the movement is their emphasis on Bayesianism in conjunction with an almost total neglect of Popperian epistemology.
In my opinion, there can’t be a meaningful distinction made between rational and irrational without Popper.
Popper injects an epistemic humility that Bayesianism, taken alone, can miss.
I think that aligns well with your observation.
Re: Guess I'm a rationalist now
#100[deleted]