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Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

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Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#191

Post by diggan »

khalic wrote: post #177

His dismissal of smaller and local models suggests he underestimates their improvement potential. Give phi4 a run and see what I mean.

> suggests a lack of understanding of these smaller models capabilities

If anything, you're showing a lack of understanding of what he was talking about. The context is this specific time, where we're early in a ecosystem and things are expensive and likely centralized (ala mainframes) but if his analogy/prediction is correct, we'll have a "Linux" moment in the future where that equation changes (again) and local models are competitive.

And while I'm a huge fan of local models run them for maybe 60-70% of what I do with LLMs, they're nowhere near proprietary ones today, sadly. I want them to, really badly, but it's important to be realistic here and realize the differences of what a normal consumer can run, and what the current mainframes can run.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#192

Post by achempion »

jph00 wrote: post #72
nothrabannosir wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn’t believe my eyes. The www is truly bankrupt. If anyone has a browser plugin which automatically redirects to llms.txt sign me up. Website too confusing for humans? Add more design, modals, newsletter pop ups, cookie banners, ads, … Website too confusing for LLMs? Add an accessible, clean, ad-free, concise, high entropy, plain text summary of your website. Make sure to hide it from the humans! PS: it should be…

The next version of the llms.txt proposal will allow an llms.txt file to be added at any level of a path, which isn't compatible with /.well-known. (I'm the creator of the llms.txt proposal.)

Even with this future approach, it still can live under the `/.well-known`, think of `/.well-known/llm/` or `/.well-known/llm.json` with key/value mappings.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#193

Post by darqis »

when I started coding at the age of 11 in machine code and assembly on the C64, the dream was to create software that creates software. Nowadays it's almost reality, almost because the devil is always in the details. When you're used to write code, writing code is relatively fast. You need this knowledge to debug issues with generated code. However you're now telling AI to fix the bugs in the generated code. I see it kind of like machine code becomes overlaid with asm which becomes overlaid with C or whatever higher level language, which then uses dogma/methodology like MVC and such and on top of that there's now the AI input and generation layer. But it's not widely available. Affording more than 1 computer is a luxury. Many households are even struggling to get by. When you see those what 5 7 Mac Minis, which normal average Joe can afford that or does even have to knowledge to construct an LLM at home? I don't. This is a toy for rich people. Just like with public clouds like AWS, GCP I left out, because the cost is too high and running my own is also too expensive and there are cheaper alternatives that not only cost less but also have way less overhead.

What would be interesting to see is what those kids produced with their vibe coding.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#194

Post by diggan »

darqis wrote: post #193

when I started coding at the age of 11 in machine code and assembly on the C64, the dream was to create software that creates software. Nowadays it's almost reality, almost because the devil is always in the details. When you're used to write code, writing code is relatively fast. You need this knowledge to debug issues with generated code. However you're now telling AI to fix the bugs in the generated code. I see it…

> those kids produced with their vibe coding

No one, including Karpathy in this video, is advocating for "vibe coding". If nothing more, LLMs paired with configurable tool-usage, is basically a highly advanced and contextual search engine you can ask questions. Are you not using a search engine today?

Even without LLMs being able to produce code or act as agents they'd be useful, because of that.

But it sucks we cannot run competitive models locally, I agree, it is somewhat of a "rich people" tool today. Going by the talk and theme, I'd agree it's a phase, like computing itself had phases. But you're gonna have to actually watch and listen to the talk itself, right now you're basically agreeing with the video yet wrote your comment like you disagree.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#195

Post by diggan »

sensanaty wrote: post #187
mentalgear wrote: post #157

Meanwhile, I asked this morning Claude 4 to write a simple EXIF normalizer. After two rounds of prompting it to double-check its code, I still had to point out that it makes no sense to load the entire image for re-orientating if the EXIF orientation is fine in the first place. Vibe vs reality, and anyone actually working in the space daily can attest how brittle these systems are. Maybe this changes in SWE with more…

There's also those instances where Microsoft unleashed Copilot on the .NET repo, and it resulted in the most hilariously terrible PRs that required the maintainers to basically tell Copilot every single step it should take to fix the issue. They were basically writing the PRs themselves at that point, except doing it through an intermediary that was much dumber, slower and less practical than them. And don't get me s…

You're not the first, nor the last person, to have a seemingly vastly different experience than me and others.

So I'm curious, what am I doing differently from what you did/do when you try them out?

This is maybe a bit out there, but would you be up for sending me like a screen recording of exactly what you're doing? Or maybe even a video call sharing your screen? I'm not working in the space, have no products or services to sell, only curious is why this gap seemingly exists between you and me, and my only motive would be to understand if I'm the one who is missing something, or there are more effective ways to help people understand how they can use LLMs and what they can use them for.

My email is on my profile if you're up for it. Invitation open for others in the same boat as parent too.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#196

Post by vFunct »

kubb wrote: post #174
ramon156 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real question is how long it'll take until they're not brittle

Or will they ever be reliable. Your question is already making an assumption.

Its perfectly reliable for the things you know it to be, such as operations within its context window size.

Don't ask LLMs to "Write me Microsoft Excel".

Instead, ask it to "Write a directory tree view for the Open File dialog box in Excel".

Break your projects down into the smallest chunks you can for the LLMs. The more specific you are, the more reliable it's going to be.

The rest of this year is going to be companies figuring out how to break down large tasks into smaller tasks for LLM consumption.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#197

Post by iLoveOncall »

superfrank wrote: post #127
karpathy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun demo of an early idea was posted by Oriol just yesterday :) https://x.com/OriolVinyalsML/status/1935005985070084197

On one hand, I'm incredibly impressed by the technology behind that demo. On the other hand, I can't think of many things that would piss me off more than a non-deterministic operating system. I like my tools to be predictable. Google search trying to predict that I want the image or shopping tag based on my query already drives me crazy. If my entire operating system did that, I'm pretty sure I'd throw my computer o…

> incredibly impressed by the technology behind that demo

An LLM generating some HTML?

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#198

Post by ffsm8 »

sensanaty wrote: post #187
mentalgear wrote: post #157

Meanwhile, I asked this morning Claude 4 to write a simple EXIF normalizer. After two rounds of prompting it to double-check its code, I still had to point out that it makes no sense to load the entire image for re-orientating if the EXIF orientation is fine in the first place. Vibe vs reality, and anyone actually working in the space daily can attest how brittle these systems are. Maybe this changes in SWE with more…

There's also those instances where Microsoft unleashed Copilot on the .NET repo, and it resulted in the most hilariously terrible PRs that required the maintainers to basically tell Copilot every single step it should take to fix the issue. They were basically writing the PRs themselves at that point, except doing it through an intermediary that was much dumber, slower and less practical than them. And don't get me s…

Unironically, your comment mirrors my opinion as of last month.

Since then I've given it another try last week and was quite literally mind blown how much it improved in the context of Vibe coding (Claude code). It actually improved so much that I thought "I would like to try that on my production codebase", (mostly because I want if to fail, because that's my job ffs) but alas - that's not allowed at my dayjob.

From the limited experience I could gather over the last week as a software dev with over 10 yrs of experience (along with another 5-10 doing it as a hobby before employment) I can say that I expect our industry to get absolutely destroyed within the next 5 yrs.

The skill ceiling for devs is going to get mostly squashed for 90% of devs, this will inevitably destroy our collective bargaining positions. Including for the last 10%, because the competition around these positions will be even more fierce.

It's already starting, even if it's currently very misguided and mostly down to short-sightedness.

But considering the trajectory and looking at how naive current llms coding tools are... Once the industry adjusts and better tooling is pioneered... it's gonna get brutal.

And most certainly not limited to software engineering. Pretty much all desk jobs will get hemorrhaged as soon as a llm-player basically replaces SAP with entirely new tooling.

Frankly, I expect this to go bad, very very quickly. But I'm still hoping for a good ending.

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#199

Post by mellosouls »

bgwalter wrote: post #183

I'd like to hear from Linux kernel developers. There is no significant software that has been written (plagiarized) by "AI". Why not ask the actual experts who deliver instead of talk? This whole thing is a religion.

There is no significant software that has been written (plagiarized) by "AI".

How do you know?

As you haven't evidenced your claim, you could start by providing explicit examples of what is significant.

Even if you are correct, the amount of llm-assisted code is increasing all the time, and we are still only a couple of years in - give it time.

Why not ask the actual experts

Many would regard Karpathy in the expert category I think?

Re: Andrej Karpathy: Software in the era of AI [video]

#200

Post by diggan »

necrodome wrote: post #68
dpkirchner wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like a HyperCard application?

We ( https://vibes.diy/ ) are betting on this

Border-line off-topic, but since you're flagrantly self-promoting, might as well add some more rule breakage to it.

You know websites/apps who let you enter text/details and then not displaying sign in/up screen until you submit it, so you feel like "Oh but I already filled it out, might as well sign up"?

They really suck, big time! It's disingenuous, misleading and wastes people's time. I had no interest in using your thing for real, but thought I'd try it out, potentially leave some feedback, but this bait-and-switch just made the whole thing feel sour and I'll probably try to actively avoid this and anything else I feel is related to it.

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