Live data from Hacker News

Game Hacking – Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC)

codeneverdies.github.io

81–90 of 167 posts

Re: Game Hacking – Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC)

#81

Years ago for educational purposes I decided to venture down understanding how easy/difficult it was to create a hack for Counterstrike. After just a few hours of watching YouTube tutorials and translating what I could grasp from C/C# into JavaScript (the only language I knew at the time), I had a working Node.js executable that edited memory offsets (using data from hazedumper[1]), letting me see enemies through wal…

I'll never understand what people actually get out of cheating in games. I'll admit I've tried it a few times just for giggles (way back in the Age of Empires II/MSN Gaming Zone days), but the novelty quickly wears off and then it's just not even fun anymore. There must be some very interesting psychology behind this.

I've botted in a few MMORPG games and the appeal is that it's basically a new perspective on the game. Also makes it more of a technical challenge than a test of mechanical skill or free time / patience.

It still feels like a game in the sense that there's progression and rewards for progression. For example, learning how to read cooldowns means you can make smarter macros and double your income / cut kill time by half. There's even different "build paths" in that you can choose to go the memory reading build (fragile but reliable), network sniffing build (less fragile but expensive), or computer vision build (easy but unreliable and expensive).

From a technical perspective, the appeal is having an excuse to try out new stuff like SAT solvers, rules engines, or whatever ML thing I just learned about. It's also a good exercise in all the math and data structures + algos stuff I've learned but never use at dayjob. Optionally, building a UI to manage the bot is fun for the same reasons, an excuse to try out new frameworks / design choices / etc. It's basically another programming job but without the icky business / customer considerations.

Though I do agree that cheats in any PvP scenario is pretty lame. It has a much bigger negative impact on other players, and it's not as much of a puzzle (mostly aimbot and pathing). In comparison, PvE games are usually social and unless you're running a swarm of VMs, you're unlikely to affect the economy or otherwise inconvenience anyone.

Re: Game Hacking – Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC)

#82
post #3

> To be continued Unfortunately, doesn't look like the followup post (about analyzing the VAC DLLs) has been written.

Maybe Valve sent Moose and Rocco to have a conversation with the author (Caddyshack reference).

Better than moose and squirrel.

Re: Game Hacking – Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC)

#83
post #68

I stopped playing because I felt I could not trust other players, I was getting too paranoid. There were not that many blatant cheaters, but with closet cheaters, it's now very difficult to know if your opponent is better than you or cheating in subtle ways. It's a grey zone. I guess it's the combination of a frustration of losing matches and the constant suspicion. I was constantly trying to probe things and watchin…

I'm closing in on 3000 hours on cs2, and I often get accused of cheating, but I never have. You're definitely right about people being upset and thinking that someone is hacking. I'm pretty good at spotting "togglers" (people who turn their hacks on and off) but there are certainly times where it's really hard to tell, people can be very sneaky about hiding it. Then sometimes someone will call them out and they'll stop pretending.

It's been quite a while since I've seen anyone spinbotting though.

Re: Game Hacking – Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC)

#84
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a lot of them, they aren't cheating, they are compensating for bad teammates, bad servers, other cheaters, bad hit reg, bad sound effects, bad whatever they can dream up. Cheating is "this is my actual skill level if there wasn't so much bullshit happening to me" Of course this is all a lie, but it's what they tell themselves.

This is only true for the people who use the cheats, not the people who make them. For the people who make them it's an intellectual exercise, like solving a puzzle, it's an end in itself. That and the social credit it gives you among your technical friends.

this discussion made me think of the people who build nukes vs the people that use them.

Re: Game Hacking – Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC)

#85

Back in 2000-2005 I was very active in a community centered around 20 or so modded Counter-Strike servers which I volunteered as an admin on. We were generally good about having at least one admin on each server at any given time to deal with cheaters. Occasionally someone wouldn’t be around though. There was a period of time lasting about a month or two where a player with a name like BELT SANDER or ANGLE GRINDER or…

rcon_password admin123

Re: Game Hacking – Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC)

#86

Years ago for educational purposes I decided to venture down understanding how easy/difficult it was to create a hack for Counterstrike. After just a few hours of watching YouTube tutorials and translating what I could grasp from C/C# into JavaScript (the only language I knew at the time), I had a working Node.js executable that edited memory offsets (using data from hazedumper[1]), letting me see enemies through wal…

I'll never understand what people actually get out of cheating in games. I'll admit I've tried it a few times just for giggles (way back in the Age of Empires II/MSN Gaming Zone days), but the novelty quickly wears off and then it's just not even fun anymore. There must be some very interesting psychology behind this.

It’s actually probably pretty benign psychology in my opinion.

Nobody on your own team is really gonna notice if you’re cheating unless it’s speed hacks or something. So your own team is hyping you up for being a god, and it feels good.

Plus a lot of people like you - trying it out for the novelty. Most people aren’t doing it, but seeing it once ever 20 games would probably be enough to drive you insane.

Re: Game Hacking – Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC)

#87

Remote Code Execution like loading DLLs from a server and executing them sounds like malware.

The other day I mentioned that it's not OK for games to be proprietary software and/or use unethical software like DRM (which tbh anti-cheats are as well). I got accused that I wanted game developers to starve to death.

There are countries that believed farming should not be profit oriented and curiously they happen to be the ones to have breadlines.

It is no coincidence that America and Japan, the two countries with the most draconian copyright protections, continue to be the dominant player in the game industry.

Profit motive and the ability to reinvest previous profits into future products is the greatest force multiplier in our planet’s history bar none. You can either suck it up like China did in the 90s and convert to a capitalist economy, or stay in the breadline forever. Oh, in this case, I mean play tux racer forever :P

Re: Game Hacking – Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC)

#88

Not quite CS, but I was part of a hacking scene that used to exploit C&C Red Alert 2, YR via Teds Relay and discovering the IRC lobby password being "supersecret". Fun times were had as a script kiddie spawning the president and placing it in an IFV and just go demolishing the other players base with this fancy laser. But hey, I was 15 at the time. Habbo Hotel too, being part of a "mafia" with a habbo multi hacker ap…

> Fun times were had as a script kiddie spawning the president and placing it in an IFV and just go demolishing the other players base with this fancy laser.

Oh. That's what happened to me. I always wondered where those lasers came from. I thought it was just a weird custom map.

Re: Game Hacking – Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC)

#89
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I only toyed with it for a few weeks as I then grew disinterested but that definitely left a sour taste in my mouth for the "effectiveness" of VAC if a script kiddie like me at the time could throw together something custom in just a few hours, I'm sure it'd be much easier now with ChatGPT... The thing is, VAC doesn't immediately ban you. Or anyone else. It's looking for suspicious patterns across hundreds if not t…

Unlikely. Last I looked, VAC only looks at a few gross elements, like the names of the DLLs loaded into the game's process. If you don't match a blacklisted name, you're probably not detected.

And user account names. At least at one point you could catch a ban for having an account named "catbot" when running on a linux box. Admittedly that was probably quite a reasonable litmus test in practice even if not in principle.

Re: Game Hacking – Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC)

#90
post #5

I am not a fan of the signature-based techniques used by VAC, et. al. I've lost a few steam accounts to accurate but unintended (i.e., not actually cheating) detection of debugging tools attached to totally unrelated processes on the same machine. Having anything open like cheat engine or Tsearch while you join a lobby is a guaranteed ban no matter what. Ethical hacking and malicious hacking are indistinguishable fro…

> Having anything open like cheat engine or Tsearch while you join a lobby is a guaranteed ban no matter what. I think a no-brainer solution here, which I am surprised isn't used, is to just immediately kick the account when a well-known signature, such as CheatEngine, is detected. If the program isn't even attempting to get around VAC, there is no point in doing the whole "delayed ban" thing.

Or even banning at all. As you say, kick out of an abundance of caution. Any serious attempt at rule breaking is going to involve at least some basic obfuscation so if that's missing it's a strong indicator of a false positive.

That said, my snarky response is "I hope you learned your lesson about the need to restrict proprietary software to a container at all times".

Post reply on HN