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Framework Laptop 12 review

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#141

Post by nrp »

mananaysiempre wrote: post #107
Lammy wrote: post #37

I really love the lavender — VAIO-core! I do wish I could get the other modules in lavender too, but I understand why they wouldn't want to fractally-complicate their stock keeping for those items. > the Laptop 12 can only fit a single DDR5 RAM slot, which reduces memory bandwidth and limits your RAM capacity to 48GB According to this post from a Framework team member, a single 64GB SODIMM will work too and just didn…

> a single 64GB SODIMM will work too Wait, are 64GB DDR5 SODIMMs finally out? I’ve been monitoring that for ages but almost lost hope.

Note that they are CSO-DIMMs, and may not be compatible with all products. In our limited testing, they do work on Framework Laptop 12.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#142

Post by nrp »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #139

From the pics there this laptop does not have a matte surface on the screen? Looks like a glossy screen. One would hope matte is an option. EDIT: Yes, it looks like matte is an option and they don't charge extra.

Framework Laptop 13 and Framework Laptop 16 are matte. Framework Laptop 12 has coverglass (non-matte) to get the durability needed for stylus support.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#144

Post by nucleardog »

dale_huevo wrote: post #111
stavros wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm far more likely to buy a RAM stick off the shelf and install it in a Framework than I am to desolder the RAM from a Macbook. Similarly, if I spill orange juice on a Framework, I can just buy a new keyboard and install it in a minute. If it were a Macbook, I'd probably throw away the whole thing, since I'd have to disassemble all of it to get to the keyboard, and it would take me hours, if I even managed to not br…

But are you really going to repair it? Or, upon spilling the juice, realize you can get a Surface Go on sale at Walmart (which this seems to be a clone of) for a bit more than a replacement keyboard and your time (which is way more than a minute) and toss it in the trash anyway.

It really doesn't seem like you're trying to engage constructively here.

Framework sells keyboards for the Framework 13 for ~$30. I can find a Surface Go on sale for as low as $500.

No, I don't think anyone's going to throw out a $500-$1000 device because it needs a $30 part and maybe 15 minutes of work (steps here: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Framework+Laptop+12+Input+Cover...) and they could instead replace their laptop with a tablet for a mere $470 more.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#145

Post by atrus »

ItCouldBeWorse wrote: post #137

> A good laptop, but not a good value One of my mentors had the great sentence: "I dont buy laptops- they suck, because they are tailored to transport. I buy desktops- and connect them via internet to flat transportable terminals. And desktops can be upgraded, merged, reused and send to the closet as server at the EOL-" And he was kind of right. For almost all purposes, even for gaming in a way- a remote desktop is k…

Using Steam Streaming/Moonlight-Sunlight/Tailscale is a dream for remote gaming.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#146

Post by ndiddy »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #94
mhitza wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it unreasonable to think Framework should be able to make a laptop competitive with the 5 years old MacBook Air M1? Kind of unreasonable. I mean which Intel or AMD cpu can be run fanless and perform well? On the topic of displays, my understanding is that they "kind of use what they can get". That's how there can be a 13 display with rounded corners in a straight edge case. What you're asking are the things I'm…

It isn't the chip which determines whether it's fanless. Basically every modern chip supports power capping and then the power cap is determined by how much heat the machine can dissipate. What that really determines is multi-thread performance. Fanless laptop that can dissipate the power of one core? No problem. Fanless laptop that can dissipate the power of all the cores? For that you have to lower the clock speed…

If someone besides Apple made a fanless laptop that had competitive performance with Apple's offerings (i.e. not a $200 Chromebook with a Celeron or a cast-off 5 year old smartphone CPU), I'd absolutely buy one. I got excited when the Qualcomm Snapdragon X was being discussed pre-launch, but then it came out with performance worse than the original M1 and it turned out that Qualcomm lied about giving it first-class Linux support. I really dislike Mac OS, but when I can't use a PC laptop in bed or on a couch or on my lap without it overheating, I'm not able to switch away. It's a shame that the entire PC industry is fine with selling laptops that will overheat when not used on a rigid flat surface.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#147

Post by nrp »

sixothree wrote: post #129
theodric wrote: post #52

> "A sturdy, thoughtful, cute design that just can't compete in its price range." People will pay untold thousands for a Mac, but God forbid when a PC manufacturer charges more than $599 for a laptop. If you're whining about the price, Framework isn't made for you. Go buy that Acer that you really want. The Framework is Sam Vimes' expensive boots that are made to last[1], and I've happily paid in full to get a pair.…

I really don't understand this argument about price. It seems extremely competitive on price to me. Am I crazy or am I really seeing 48 GB and 2 TB for $1500? For $1500 you get a 16 GB 512 GB macbook air.

This is a key part of our product value prop. Our memory and storage upgrade pricing is much lower than most other laptop makers, and you can find your own on the open market for even less. Other laptop makers can preserve their overall margin by overcharging on those upgrades, which lets them price their base SKUs more aggressively. We accepted the tradeoff of not gouging on upgrades.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#148

Post by atrus »

nucleardog wrote: post #130

> A good laptop, but not a good value Where "value" is purely monetary, I think that pretty succinctly sums up my experience/views on the Framework product line. They make good laptops, but you can generally get more for fewer dollars. If you're shopping on price, you can probably just skip right over their entire product line. That doesn't mean that their offering doesn't have value. It has value has a vote with you…

I think the repairabilty makes it hard to even compare monetary value, since in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. Is it cheaper to buy two other laptops compared to one laptop + mainboard? That's what, a 3-5 year timeline? Who knows what prices/capabilities/etc will be like then.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#149

Post by ItCouldBeWorse »

atrus wrote: post #145
ItCouldBeWorse wrote: post #137

> A good laptop, but not a good value One of my mentors had the great sentence: "I dont buy laptops- they suck, because they are tailored to transport. I buy desktops- and connect them via internet to flat transportable terminals. And desktops can be upgraded, merged, reused and send to the closet as server at the EOL-" And he was kind of right. For almost all purposes, even for gaming in a way- a remote desktop is k…

Using Steam Streaming/Moonlight-Sunlight/Tailscale is a dream for remote gaming.

You are absolutely right- forgive me, im kind of out of touch with the whole steam revolutionizing gaming on linux.

I think the comment about the "transporttax" on hardware, ergonomic and cooling still holds up though even in a world where things like steam-deck exist.

Even more so, if you may have lightweight ar-headsets one day, with a glorified cellphone + mouse and keyboard.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#150

Post by radus »

dale_huevo wrote: post #111
stavros wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm far more likely to buy a RAM stick off the shelf and install it in a Framework than I am to desolder the RAM from a Macbook. Similarly, if I spill orange juice on a Framework, I can just buy a new keyboard and install it in a minute. If it were a Macbook, I'd probably throw away the whole thing, since I'd have to disassemble all of it to get to the keyboard, and it would take me hours, if I even managed to not br…

But are you really going to repair it? Or, upon spilling the juice, realize you can get a Surface Go on sale at Walmart (which this seems to be a clone of) for a bit more than a replacement keyboard and your time (which is way more than a minute) and toss it in the trash anyway.

> But are you really going to repair it?

Yes

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