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Preparation of a neutral nitrogen allotrope hexanitrogen C2h-N6

nature.com

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Re: Preparation of a neutral nitrogen allotrope hexanitrogen C2h-N6

#11

Post by WJW »

rich_sasha wrote: post #5

> [Nitrogen compounds] are considered promising clean energy-storage materials owing to their immense energy content that is much higher than hydrogen, ammonia or hydrazine, which are in common use, and because they release only harmless nitrogen on decomposition. What the abstract mentions only sideways is that a key use of these properties is production of explosives - nitroglycerin, trinitrotoluene (TNT) or nitroc…

While it's true that most explosives use nitrogen-based compounds, only a vanishingly small amount of all nitrogen based compounds are used for military applications. Rough estimates are that about 85% goes to producing fertilizer, most of the rest is for various industrial applications and as a fuel.

Relative to the scale of how much fertilizer humanity uses, there's just not all that much demand for explosives.

Re: Preparation of a neutral nitrogen allotrope hexanitrogen C2h-N6

#12

Post by _0ffh »

> Here we present the room-temperature preparation of molecular N6 (hexanitrogen) through the gas-phase reaction of chlorine or bromine with silver azide

Hmmm, chlorine and bromine - off to a good start - then we come to silver azide.

"Azide" immediately rings all my Derek Lowe bells, and yeah... it's exactly what you'd expect.

Re: Preparation of a neutral nitrogen allotrope hexanitrogen C2h-N6

#13

Post by myrmidon »

> Compounds consisting only of the element nitrogen [...] are considered promising clean energy-storage materials

They are not actually serious about this, right?

I feel if that directly acknowledging Klapötke of all people is basically a thinly veiled concession that watever you synthesized is too explosive to even be used as an explosive. As seems to be the case here.

Is there even a remotely possibility for this to be used in any practical application?

Noneteless, impressive paper, and getting that abstract into Nature is basically an achievement on its own already.

Re: Preparation of a neutral nitrogen allotrope hexanitrogen C2h-N6

#14

Post by wiredfool »

_0ffh wrote: post #12

> Here we present the room-temperature preparation of molecular N6 (hexanitrogen) through the gas-phase reaction of chlorine or bromine with silver azide Hmmm, chlorine and bromine - off to a good start - then we come to silver azide. "Azide" immediately rings all my Derek Lowe bells, and yeah... it's exactly what you'd expect.

That would be this one: https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-wor...

> We're talking high-nitrogen compounds here (a specialty of Klapötke's group), and the question is not whether such things are going to be explosive hazards. (That's been settled by their empirical formulas, which generally look like typographical errors). The question is whether you're going to be able to get a long enough look at the material before it realizes its dream of turning into an expanding cloud of hot nitrogen gas.

Re: Preparation of a neutral nitrogen allotrope hexanitrogen C2h-N6

#15

Post by rbanffy »

WJW wrote: post #10
perihelions wrote: post #6

- "decomposition of N6 into three N2 is exothermic (ΔH₀) by 185.2 kcal mol−1" That's an impressive amount of energy, 9.2e6 J/kg—on the same order as carbon combustion. Wonder if it's a potential rocket fuel additive (it probably isn't, but fun to ask). By comparison, O₃ is "only" 3.0e6 J/kg above diatomic oxygen. > "is unlikely to decompose through [quantum mechanical tunneling], with an estimated half-life of N6 of…

I guess you could have it as some sort of monopropellant? Have some cryogenically cooled N6 flow to the combustion chamber, where it heats up and self-decomposes. Initially you'd have to have some other form of thermal energy input to start the process but once it's going the heat coming off the reaction will trigger further reactions. One downside would be that you'd have much more trouble cooling the engine. Normal…

You can store it inside the LH2 tank, but you'll need to use it completely before you run out of LH2 or it gets too hot. You might be able to inject it in a cold LH2 feed that doesn't pass by the cooling channels and injects directly into the combustion chamber so any N6 gets flushed into the chamber before the engine runs out of LH2. LH2+N6 needs to flow fast enough it doesn't heat up before it hits the chamber.

Still, one commenter mentioned this is too explosive to be used as an explosive. That kind of warns me against thinking too much about this.

Re: Preparation of a neutral nitrogen allotrope hexanitrogen C2h-N6

#16

Post by rbanffy »

a3w wrote: post #8
rich_sasha wrote: post #5

> [Nitrogen compounds] are considered promising clean energy-storage materials owing to their immense energy content that is much higher than hydrogen, ammonia or hydrazine, which are in common use, and because they release only harmless nitrogen on decomposition. What the abstract mentions only sideways is that a key use of these properties is production of explosives - nitroglycerin, trinitrotoluene (TNT) or nitroc…

Hexanitrogen? Nice, but Octanitrocubane is what GURPS promised for TL9. Found in the warhead table, yes: this is "cleaner" explosives, but military is not spending billions to safe the environment. But get a higher TNT-equivalent per kilogram.

How many nitrogens do we need to have a chemical primary for a fusion weapon?

Re: Preparation of a neutral nitrogen allotrope hexanitrogen C2h-N6

#17

Post by greenavocado »

xmcqdpt2 wrote: post #9

The best part is the Methods section, which opens with > Warning! Silver azide and halogen azides are extremely hazardous and explosive. Such compounds should be handled with utmost care and only in very small quantities ( That is, please do the synthesis in full armor, in the dark and don't touch anything more than strictly necessary. Also wear ear protection, because it's still going to go bang. I like the green en…

Can't help but to think of Azidoazide azide when I see azides mentioned

Re: Preparation of a neutral nitrogen allotrope hexanitrogen C2h-N6

#18

Post by [deleted] »

rbanffy wrote: post #16
a3w wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hexanitrogen? Nice, but Octanitrocubane is what GURPS promised for TL9. Found in the warhead table, yes: this is "cleaner" explosives, but military is not spending billions to safe the environment. But get a higher TNT-equivalent per kilogram.

How many nitrogens do we need to have a chemical primary for a fusion weapon?

[deleted]

Re: Preparation of a neutral nitrogen allotrope hexanitrogen C2h-N6

#19

Post by HelloNurse »

xmcqdpt2 wrote: post #9

The best part is the Methods section, which opens with > Warning! Silver azide and halogen azides are extremely hazardous and explosive. Such compounds should be handled with utmost care and only in very small quantities ( That is, please do the synthesis in full armor, in the dark and don't touch anything more than strictly necessary. Also wear ear protection, because it's still going to go bang. I like the green en…

> gas-phase reaction of chlorine or bromine with silver azide, followed by trapping in argon matrices at 10 K

Certainly not a process that can be made simple, safe and efficient for use in a battery: explosives or rocket fuel are the only possible kinds of "clean energy-storage materials".

Re: Preparation of a neutral nitrogen allotrope hexanitrogen C2h-N6

#20

Post by bell-cot »

rbanffy wrote: post #16
a3w wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hexanitrogen? Nice, but Octanitrocubane is what GURPS promised for TL9. Found in the warhead table, yes: this is "cleaner" explosives, but military is not spending billions to safe the environment. But get a higher TNT-equivalent per kilogram.

How many nitrogens do we need to have a chemical primary for a fusion weapon?

I suspect you'd need about 0.013 M total, based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_dwarf#Deuterium_fusion
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