Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 372 posts

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#201

Post by sseveran »

shawnee_ wrote: post #53

If Lucy Koh is so intent on protecting the singularity of one corporate interest over what is so obviously good for the general public, she should not be a Federal District Judge. She should still be in private practice. We need Federal District Judges who are willing to work for the good of consumers, which involves protecting a market where competition can thrive. Consumers benefit when there is more than one separ…

I judge does not and should not work for consumers. A judge is there to fairly apply the law.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#202

Post by 001sky »

kapnobatairza wrote: post #81
programminggeek wrote: post #10

This is both unsurprising and somewhat meaningless as there will be an appeals process that will last for months and possibly years. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that Samsung made their products to look like Apple products. They changed their icon styles and other UI elements away from Android standards to match the Apple style. Some of the things Apple invented and patented on like pinch to zoom an…

I think it is fair to say that Samsung may have crossed some lines as far as "trade dress" goes. But did Apple really invent pinch to zoom? Jeff Han demonstrated pinch to zoom gestures at TED in 2006, Microsoft Surface in 2007 before the iPhone was released, and I've seen various forms of "pinch to zoom" on different tablets and smart board applications. I think that Apple did a good job developing some multi-touch i…

MSFT just recently acquired Perceptive Pixel last month, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perceptive_Pixel.

[Jeff Han's company, and maker of multi-touch user interfaces].

Presumably these patents were still pending during alot of the timeline, as US 7,844,915 has only been out since Nov 2010. It Languished at the patent office for 3.5 yrs?

edit: language/clarifications

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#203

Post by Steko »

sriramk wrote: post #74

The big winner, apart from Apple, is Microsoft. If you're a hardware manufacturer, your choices are 1. You go with Android and have both Apple and Microsoft come after you. 2. You go with Windows Phone. I suspect the Windows Phone team is breaking open some champagne now.

Microsoft has already applied a reported $5/device licensing fee to Android. It varies I guess but they have most vendors signed up.

If the outcome of this is that Apple effectively gets $10/device for Android then Windows Phone at $15/device has something approaching price parity.

However if I was a phone vendor I would still prefer Android for various reasons including the optional nature of the license(s), the flexibility, superior third and first party apps, the fact that Nokia has better access to WP7, etc.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#205

Post by snowwrestler »

pooriaazimi wrote: post #157
magicalist wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know why Jeff Han's work was not emphasized more as prior art? (there was also more at the time, but I can't recall specifics now). > If we had patents on desktop GUI user input standards like right click, ctrl key modifiers like ctrl-scroll to zoom, etc. then using computers would be a much bigger PITA. This is the key right here. I don't think everyone fully understands what is happening around these UI…

Jeff Han demoed it in late 2006, merely months before iPhone introduction. Apple started working on iPhone (and multitouch screens) in the early 00s and (I'm recalling from memory) they filed their multitouch patent in 2004 or 2005.

In addition they purchased Fingerworks, who began working on capacitive multitouch sensing and gestures in the 1990s. I believe the founders of Fingerworks held several patents in that area--and still work at Apple today.

I have a Fingerworks touchpad and it is amazing. Apple is slowly rolling the gestures in their products. For instance with Lion the "click and drag" gesture went from a double-tap-and-hold (Apple standard for years) to a three-finger drag (what it is on my Fingerworks pad).

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#206

Post by electromagnetic »

shreyansj wrote: post #77
lawdawg wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and all those phones have pinch to zoom. Just because Microsoft and Apple are colluding to avoid suing each other doesn't mean that an OS like WP is somehow the solution.

Licensing patents is not called collusion. Edit: Source http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/08/apple-licensed-de...

No it's not called collusion, but when you have reciprocal agreements on licenses then it might as well be.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#207

Post by tptacek »

jellicle wrote: post #182
nirvana wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a big misunderstanding of patents. Patents don't cover ideas, but inventions. "Pinch to zoom" is a feature, and the idea of doing that is not patentable by Apple or Jeff Han. It is the implementation that is patentable, and Apple's touch technology is very different from Jeff Hans'. It's quite possible that both could legitimately patent their inventions.... just as the rotory and the piston engines can both…

Your understanding disagrees with current law.

... in the sense that...?

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#208

Post by lubos »

taligent wrote: post #196
vesky wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reports already show that the jurors had not idea what they were doing. Many of the claims they made had no actual basis of infringement. This reeks heavily of people that had little idea about how the system actually works and gave verdicts that were more speculative rather than grounded and based on hard acts of actual infringement. http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/24/hang-on-a-minute-jurors-awa...

Sorry buy you're definitely wrong there. It is not "many of the claims" it is one claim for one phone out of what 15+ that were covered in the case. It is quite understandable that there would be at least one mistake out of the all patent/phone combinations.

Then how do you explain this:

"The judge is writing a note to the jury to point out exactly what the inconsistencies are, because they couldn’t seem to tell from going over the document themselves."

Poor judge who was reading it seems to be more switched on than people who were writing it. I'm sure court room felt like an elementary school at that point.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#209

Post by iRobot »

pooriaazimi wrote: post #157
magicalist wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know why Jeff Han's work was not emphasized more as prior art? (there was also more at the time, but I can't recall specifics now). > If we had patents on desktop GUI user input standards like right click, ctrl key modifiers like ctrl-scroll to zoom, etc. then using computers would be a much bigger PITA. This is the key right here. I don't think everyone fully understands what is happening around these UI…

Jeff Han demoed it in late 2006, merely months before iPhone introduction. Apple started working on iPhone (and multitouch screens) in the early 00s and (I'm recalling from memory) they filed their multitouch patent in 2004 or 2005.

same argument works the other way. If he demo'd it then he may have invented it before then.

Re: Apple Wins Patent Ruling As Jury Finds Samsung Infringes

#210

Post by cageface »

programminggeek wrote: post #10

This is both unsurprising and somewhat meaningless as there will be an appeals process that will last for months and possibly years. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that Samsung made their products to look like Apple products. They changed their icon styles and other UI elements away from Android standards to match the Apple style. Some of the things Apple invented and patented on like pinch to zoom an…

Apple has done a good job of persuading people that this case was about protecting innovation and about Samsung's specific alleged infringements of their patents. But this is nothing more than a smoke screen for their ongoing proxy war on Android.

They've refused to compete with Android on price, features, and form factors and the market has punished them for it. Expect more attacks on Android seeking ridiculous damages for non-essential details of mobile UI design.

However, I strongly suspect Apple is going to regret these tactics in the long run. Once the tiger is out of the cage there's no telling who he will bite.

Post reply on HN