I get it about Wayland. Most of X is legacy cruft and even isolating that into XWayland or whatever it's called for backwards compatibility is better than having it front and center. But yes, there are use cases it doesn't cover. Example. My elderly mom uses Linux laptops that I've rigged to (1) always have an SSH connection open to my server machine, with reverse tunnels, and (2) run x0vncserver. Modern security peo…
Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre
71–80 of 212 posts
Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre
#72Wayland seems the canonical example of https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-...
They haven’t simply rewritten the existing implementations of X protocols. They threw away the X protocols and devised new ones that don’t cover all the cases.
Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre
#73As someone who actively uses a wayland compositor and has done so since switching to linux ~4 years ago, I often feel like I live in a different world from the authors of articles discussing its usability. Just to discuss a few points made about wayland's supposed inferiority: > Wayland cannot do (or do well) tons of things: > VNC server > remote desktop I don't regularly use either of these so I cannot attest to whe…
The only wayland compositor that I know of that handles XWayland correctly is hyprland. And when I say correctly, I mean that if I am on a non 96 DPI display, e.g. a 168 DPI display (1.75x) and want things scaling properly, Xwayland gets told to pretend that the display size is some resolution in the vicinity of ~1097 by ~686 (not sure how this part works, and honestly I don't think it's relevant) and a DPI of 96. Th…
KWin/Plasma have a switch in the settings where you can toggle vaseline on or off. If you run modern X11 applications that are HiDPI-aware, or you can crank the size of fonts and controls however you want, you may turn it off. If you have that Athena widget application that is tiny otherwise, you turn it on (alas, there is no possibility to have two sets of X display and putting apps on the one you need).
The only thing that for some stupid reason can't be solved is that I can't turn off blurry interpolation on the low DPI applications. Come on! The low DPI layer is in integer multiples, make it nearest-neighbor pixelated but crisp! How hard is that!?
(same goes for QEMU. Argggh!)
Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre
#74Well, it's my understanding that Xorg still cannot do per-monitor fractional scaling these days, have they fixed it? That was the major selling point of Wayland for me, as an occasional linux desktop user. Retina MacBook Pro was released in 2012, about 13 years ago. Personally, I don't think Xorg is in a position to sneer at its competitor for being "beta in quality" after "15 years into making."
XFCE solves this by using XRandR multipliers which can be applied per monitor, where the canvas is really big and is scaled however the target display needs it.
It's like macOS is doing it, by the way.
Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only wayland compositor that I know of that handles XWayland correctly is hyprland. And when I say correctly, I mean that if I am on a non 96 DPI display, e.g. a 168 DPI display (1.75x) and want things scaling properly, Xwayland gets told to pretend that the display size is some resolution in the vicinity of ~1097 by ~686 (not sure how this part works, and honestly I don't think it's relevant) and a DPI of 96. Th…
KWin/Plasma have a switch in the settings where you can toggle vaseline on or off. If you run modern X11 applications that are HiDPI-aware, or you can crank the size of fonts and controls however you want, you may turn it off. If you have that Athena widget application that is tiny otherwise, you turn it on (alas, there is no possibility to have two sets of X display and putting apps on the one you need). The only th…
Okay, so there's _two_ options now which handle this properly. One conventional desktop environment, and one tiling window manager.
Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre
#76[flagged]
Can you explain how xorg developers removing a lot of their own code and calling it "bad" because they get mad at someone makes you think that xorg is professional and makes the fork look bad? I am only able to see it the opposite way, that is, xorg developers have no idea wtf are they doing.
I mean them deleting their own code only proves their own incompetence not Enrico's.
Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre
#77If you don't bother about any app being able to spoof on your pressed keys: go, use Xorg. But why stop there, and cope with a multi-user environment? Just boot into single user mode and "chmod a+rwx / -R". A lot of other /problems/ solved too. /S
How do accessibility tools work with that? They need to examine and control other running processes.
Fake inputs are done with uinput(kernel interface). Access to the screen is usually over pipewire.
Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre
#78[flagged]
[flagged]
The main repository's README has essentially a somewhat skeevy general undertone of "we accept all contributions from all kinds of people, but anyone who disagrees with me is clearly an evil paid corporate shill out to get me." At the time I read it, I didn't know or care who it was.
Then someone mentioned that this was the guy who got Torvalds to tell him GTFO off the kernel mailing lists, and when reading the article about it, I saw the name of the individual. Just seeing that name immediately reminded me of some interactions I've personally had with him a decade ago which eventually resulted (IIRC) in him being told to GTFO of that project. And the catalyst for this fork is being told to GTFO of Xorg thanks to his interactions with the rest of the people.
This is someone who is constantly grating on peoples' nerves to the point that they're kicked out of open source projects for being net negative contributors to the project. And given the repeat nature of it, they also lack the perspicacity to realize the commonality of these incidents. Now a thorough description of their behavior is perhaps superior to just calling them a "reactionary nutjob," but their reputation does proceed them and is justly earned.
Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre
#79> What I don't like is ANY, I repeat ANY software solution that champions mediocrity. Then it should be proven that proposed alternative to Wayland is not mediocre or worse in issues Wayland is solving. Overall the post looks very shortsighted in looking at these issues from very narrow perspective, seemingly not realizing problems that need solving are much wider and not limited to one use case. Wayland surely is no…
I mean, I’m a Windows user so I have no dog in this fight, but it seems like the principal implants are that it’s slower, less responsive and less stable than the alternative. This seems like a primary use case. I’m not sure what the wider use cases you’re thinking of that justify the switch.
> but it seems like the principal implants are that it’s slower, less responsive and less stable than the alternative
I think that's simply false. Wayland is a protocol. What's slow or fast is compositors implementation. And there are good ones that aren't slow / less responsive etc.
Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre
#80Wayland is architecturally garbage. Not for technical reasons, but social ones. Although social isn't the right word to describe a technology that encourages toolkit/DM/etc fragmentation which in turn breaks core functionality in the wider application ecosystem. Some of this isn't the fault of wayland directly, but it makes it worse. AKA by design there isn't a standard way to iterate windows and detect buttons/lists…
Change-averse people have no valid opinions/s