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Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

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Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

#11

Post by timewizard »

devmor wrote: post #7

I agree with the sentiment of this post in general (annoyance with Wayland being shoved down my throat, despite missing core features of Xorg) but I am rather concerned about Xlibre's future as a project. The README being stuffed with reactionary political dogwhistles is downright weird and doesn't inspire confidence in longevity.

> The README being stuffed with political dogwhistles is downright weird

For reasons I've never understood politics started invading open source about 10 years ago. What's weird is that these political ideas all seem to be highly aligned and this is the first major project that breaks that alignment.

Personally I'd prefer to see the politics, on both sides, disappear forever. It only pollutes the engineering and it fails to be convincing or meaningful in any other context.

> doesn't inspire confidence in longevity.

There are forces trying to kill X11 for their own internal reasons. I think as long as there is a project that is trying to maintain it, it will be successful, political warts and all.

Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

#12

Post by MrArthegor »

erk__ wrote: post #8
devmor wrote: post #7

I agree with the sentiment of this post in general (annoyance with Wayland being shoved down my throat, despite missing core features of Xorg) but I am rather concerned about Xlibre's future as a project. The README being stuffed with reactionary political dogwhistles is downright weird and doesn't inspire confidence in longevity.

The main author is the person in Linus yells at here: https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/11/linus_torvalds_vaccin...

Honestly the belief of the developers don’t matter at the end of the day. The quality of code is the only thing who matters.

And I don’t imply the quality of code is good or not, I have no idea.

Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

#14

Post by devmor »

timewizard wrote: post #11
devmor wrote: post #7

I agree with the sentiment of this post in general (annoyance with Wayland being shoved down my throat, despite missing core features of Xorg) but I am rather concerned about Xlibre's future as a project. The README being stuffed with reactionary political dogwhistles is downright weird and doesn't inspire confidence in longevity.

> The README being stuffed with political dogwhistles is downright weird For reasons I've never understood politics started invading open source about 10 years ago. What's weird is that these political ideas all seem to be highly aligned and this is the first major project that breaks that alignment. Personally I'd prefer to see the politics, on both sides, disappear forever. It only pollutes the engineering and it f…

I think politics will always be a big part of open source, as the nature of open source development is inherently at odds with corporatism and control.

It's particularly the reactionary stuff that concerns me when it comes to projects like this. When someone's motivation is tied to short-lived movements of social energy like that, I don't trust them to have a long term vision or investment in a project.

Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

#16

Post by bigstrat2003 »

85392_school wrote: post #10
devmor wrote: post #7

I agree with the sentiment of this post in general (annoyance with Wayland being shoved down my throat, despite missing core features of Xorg) but I am rather concerned about Xlibre's future as a project. The README being stuffed with reactionary political dogwhistles is downright weird and doesn't inspire confidence in longevity.

The README: https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/blob/master/README.md The code of conduct: https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/blob/master/CODE_OF_COND...

Does anyone else get an error from GitHub when going to those links, or is it just me?

Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

#17

Post by jajuuka »

devmor wrote: post #7

I agree with the sentiment of this post in general (annoyance with Wayland being shoved down my throat, despite missing core features of Xorg) but I am rather concerned about Xlibre's future as a project. The README being stuffed with reactionary political dogwhistles is downright weird and doesn't inspire confidence in longevity.

I disagree with the sentiment and welcome the future. But I do agree the way the author skips over the reason this exists and the problematic nature of their readme is a red flag. Either they agree with the dogwhistles or are being intentionally obtuse to proclaim that it's "only about the code".

Definitely don't see this project having legs or at the very least not advancing very far.

Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

#18

Post by zdragnar »

moomin wrote: post #6
shmerl wrote: post #3

> What I don't like is ANY, I repeat ANY software solution that champions mediocrity. Then it should be proven that proposed alternative to Wayland is not mediocre or worse in issues Wayland is solving. Overall the post looks very shortsighted in looking at these issues from very narrow perspective, seemingly not realizing problems that need solving are much wider and not limited to one use case. Wayland surely is no…

I mean, I’m a Windows user so I have no dog in this fight, but it seems like the principal implants are that it’s slower, less responsive and less stable than the alternative. This seems like a primary use case. I’m not sure what the wider use cases you’re thinking of that justify the switch.

I used daily drive Wayland. It's fine; for most of what I do I'm happier with it than I am macos or windows. I frequently ran into screen tearing on X, something that I've not struggled with at all on Wayland.

I feel for people who are bitten by Wayland, but there's a really vocal negative group on here that I suspect are very much in the minority. Much like the switch from init to system, most people are fine with it.

Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

#19

Post by bryanlarsen »

MrArthegor wrote: post #12
erk__ wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main author is the person in Linus yells at here: https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/11/linus_torvalds_vaccin...

Honestly the belief of the developers don’t matter at the end of the day. The quality of code is the only thing who matters. And I don’t imply the quality of code is good or not, I have no idea.

Projects of this size cannot be a one man show. So the ability of collaborators to cooperate matters greatly.

Re: Long live Xorg, I mean Xlibre

#20

Post by topspin »

moomin wrote: post #6
shmerl wrote: post #3

> What I don't like is ANY, I repeat ANY software solution that champions mediocrity. Then it should be proven that proposed alternative to Wayland is not mediocre or worse in issues Wayland is solving. Overall the post looks very shortsighted in looking at these issues from very narrow perspective, seemingly not realizing problems that need solving are much wider and not limited to one use case. Wayland surely is no…

I mean, I’m a Windows user so I have no dog in this fight, but it seems like the principal implants are that it’s slower, less responsive and less stable than the alternative. This seems like a primary use case. I’m not sure what the wider use cases you’re thinking of that justify the switch.

> it’s slower, less responsive and less stable

And the remote application/desktop story is terrible.

I won't consider it until remote is at least as good or better than Xorg, and I don't foresee that happening in my lifetime (literally,) so Wayland will remain a bugbear I'll continue ignoring. I don't know and can't imagine how a recently promulgated desktop GUI platform that doesn't have remote as top priority came to be, but they weren't interested in anything I care about.

I welcome Xlibre. It's not the first X fork, and the previous ones turned out great, as far as I'm concerned.

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