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Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

blog.miguelgrinberg.com

111–120 of 464 posts

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's something you can pick in a few minutes You can start in a few minutes, sure. (Also you can start using gdb in minutes) But GP is talking about the ceiling. Do you know which models work better for what kind of task? Do you know what format is better for extra files? Do you know when it's beneficial to restart / compress context? Are you using single prompts or multi stage planning trees? How are you managing…

I feel like there is also a very high ceiling to how much scaffolding you can produce for the agents to get them to work better. This includes custom prompts, custom CLAUDE.md files, other documentation files for Claude to read, and especially how well and quickly your linting and tests can run, and how much functionality they cover. That's not to mention MCP and getting Claude to talk to your database or open your w…

When you say specification, what, specifically, does that mean? Do you have an example?

I've actually been playing around with languages that separate implementation from specification under the theory that it will be better for this sort of stuff, but that leaves an extremely limited number of options (C, C++, Ada... not sure what else).

I've been using C and the various LLMs I've tried seem to have issues with the lack of memory safety there.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you lack "that kind of scratch", you are at the learning stage for software development, not the keeping up stage. Either that or horribly underpaid.

$100 per month for a SaaS is quite a lot outside of Western countries. People are not even spending that much on VPN or Password Manager.

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Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#113
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're going to spend a little over $1k to ramp up your skills with AI-aided coding. It's dirt cheap in the grand scheme of things.

How are those without that kind of scratch supposed to keep up with those that do?

What makes you think those without that kind of scratch are supposed to keep up?

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#114

I'm fine with anybody saying AI agents don't work for their work-style and am not looking to rebut this piece, but I'm going to take this opportunity to call something out. The author writes "reviewing code is actually harder than most people think. It takes me at least the same amount of time to review code not written by me than it would take me to write the code myself". That sounds within an SD of true for me, to…

I can read code much faster than I can write it.

This might be the defining line for Gen AI - people who can read code faster will find it useful and those that write faster then they can read won’t use it.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always use Claude Code to debug issues, there’s no point in trying to do this yourself when AI can fix it in minutes (easy to verify if you write tests first) o3 with new search can do things in 5 mins that will take me at least 30 mins if I’m very efficient. Say what you want but the time savings is real.

How do you know what tests to write if you don’t understand the code?

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Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#117
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not agree it is something you can pick up in an hour. You have to learn what AI is good at, how different models code, how to prompt to get the results you want. If anything, prompting well is akin to learning a new programming language. What words do you use to explain what you want to achieve? How do you reference files/sections so you don't waste context on meaningless things? I've been using AI tools to code…

I am also interested in how much of these skills are at the mercy of OpenAI ? Like IIRC 1 or 2 years ago there was an uproar of AI "artists" saying that their art is ruined because of model changes ( or maybe the system prompt changed ). >I do not agree it is something you can pick up in an hour. But it's also interesting that the industry is selling the opposite ( with AI anyone can code / write / draw / make music…

OpenAI? They are far from the forefront here. No one is using their models for this.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#118
post #19

To some degree, traditional coding and AI coding are not the same thing, so it's not surprising that some people are better at one than the other. The author is basically saying that he's much better at coding than AI coding. But it's important to realize that AI coding is itself a skill that you can develop. It's not just , pick the best tool and let it go. Managing prompts and managing context has a much higher ski…

> You might prefer manual coding, but you might just be bad at AI coding and you might prefer it if you improved at it. ok but how much am I supposed to spend before I supposedly just "get good"? Because based on the free trials and the pocket change I've spent, I don't consider the ROI worth it.

It wont be the hippest of solutions, but you can use something like Devstral Small with a full open source setup to get experimenting with local LLMs and a bunch of tools - or just chat with it with a chat interface. I did pingponged between Devstral running as a chat interface and my regular text editor some time ago to make a toy project of a raytracer [0] (output) [1] (code).

While it wasn't the fanciest integration (nor the best of codegen), it was good enough to "get going" (the loop was to ask the LLM do something, then me do something else in the background, then fix and merge the changed it did - even though i often had to fix stuff[2], sometimes it was less of a hassle than if i had to start from scratch[3]).

It can give you a vague idea that with more dedicated tooling (i.e. something that does automatically what you'd do by hand[4]) you could do more interesting things (combining with some sort of LSP functionality to pass function bodies to the LLM would also help), though personally i'm not a fan of the "dedicated editor" that seems to be used and i think something more LSP-like (especially if it can also work with existing LSPs) would be neat.

IMO it can be useful for a bunch of boilerplate-y or boring work. The biggest issue i can see is that the context is too small to include everything (imagine, e.g., throwing the entire Blender source code in an LLM which i don't think even the largest of cloud-hosted LLMs can handle) so there needs to be some external way to store stuff dynamically but also the LLM to know that external stuff are available, look them up and store stuff if needed. Not sure how exactly that'd work though to the extent where you could -say- open up a random Blender source code file, point to a function, ask the LLM to make a modification, have it reuse any existing functions in the codebase where appropriate (without you pointing them out) and then, if needed, have the LLM also update the code where the function you modified is used (e.g. if you added/removed some argument or changed the semantics of its use).

[0] https://i.imgur.com/FevOm0o.png

[1] https://app.filen.io/#/d/e05ae468-6741-453c-a18d-e83dcc3de92...

[2] e.g. when i asked it to implement a BVH to speed up things it made something that wasn't hierarchical and actually slowed down things

[3] the code it produced for [2] was fixable to do a simple BVH

[4] i tried a larger project and wrote a script that `cat`ed and `xclip`ed a bunch of header files to pass to the LLM so it knows the available functions and each function had a single line comment about what it does - when the LLM wrote new functions it also added that comment. 99% of these oneliner comments were written by the LLM actually.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#119
post #79
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an implied assumption here that code you write yourself doesn't need to be reviewed from a context different from the author's. There's an old expression: "code as if your work will be read by a psychopath who knows where you live" followed by the joke "they know where you live because it is future you". Generative AI coding just forces the mindset you should have had all along: start with acceptance criteria…

There's an implied assumption here that developers who end up spending all their time reviewing LLM code won't lose their skills or become homicidal. :p

Fair enough. ;-)

I'm actually curious about the "lose their skills" angle though. In the open source community it's well understood that if anything reviewing a lot of code tends to sharpen your skills.

Re: Generative AI coding tools and agents do not work for me

#120
post #19

To some degree, traditional coding and AI coding are not the same thing, so it's not surprising that some people are better at one than the other. The author is basically saying that he's much better at coding than AI coding. But it's important to realize that AI coding is itself a skill that you can develop. It's not just , pick the best tool and let it go. Managing prompts and managing context has a much higher ski…

Is it a skill worth learning though? How much does the output quality improve? How transferable is it across models and tools of today, and of the future?

From what I see of AI programming tools today, I highly doubt the skills developed are going to transfer to tools we'll see even a year from now.

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