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David Attenborough at 99: 'I will not see how the story ends'

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Re: David Attenborough at 99: 'I will not see how the story ends'

#111

Post by ainiriand »

recursivecaveat wrote: post #35
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory: The forces of Line Must Go Up are going to keep winning. Mitigating the impact of climate change will be part of Line Goes Up. Whether it will be cheaper or more expensive than avoiding it in the first place will remain to be seen (but won't really matter in the end), but we will be facing whatever impacts we will be facing, and we will face them, and we will deal with them. If you have any doubt, look at…

For the Netherlands, the entity that pays the cost is the same that benefits from preparedness. For climate change, the plastic doohickey plant in misc country who would have to pay the cost of losing their asset, is entirely divorced from the entities who will benefit from CO2 reduction: everyone in the world. It's a prisoner's dilemma played at every level from the individual to the corporation to the region, and c…

Exactly, we cannot expect to bring individual responsibility to a global problem. There will always be individual entities not puling their weight. The train of climate agreements and collective effort has left the station, the climate accords were aiming for under 1,5C and we are very much into 2,5-3C territory.

Re: David Attenborough at 99: 'I will not see how the story ends'

#112

Post by pyrale »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #49
hermitcrab wrote: post #20

I watched David Attenborough's recent film 'Ocean' on a big screen. The footage of bottom trawling was really shocking. I don't understand how that has been allowed to continue in UK coastal waters, let alone to be subsidised in marine protected areas. Madness. It's like napalming a forest to get a few deer. Thankfully things may be changing: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-proposes-to-ex... Don't know…

Greenpeace used to drop boulders into the ocean to prevent bottom trawling circa 2021-2022. Unsure if they still do. Fairly straightforward to solve for if you’re willing to drop chunks of rock (granite, non reactive) or concrete in the ocean at the right spots. Bans are nice, destructive force against adversaries works better though. Hard to take the selfish out of the human, so you have to engineer systems accordin…

> Bans are nice, destructive force against adversaries works better though.

The ocean is large, and the effort required to cover significant areas in boulders is ridiculously high.

Re: David Attenborough at 99: 'I will not see how the story ends'

#113

Post by closewith »

noisy_boy wrote: post #59
toomuchtodo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greenpeace used to drop boulders into the ocean to prevent bottom trawling circa 2021-2022. Unsure if they still do. Fairly straightforward to solve for if you’re willing to drop chunks of rock (granite, non reactive) or concrete in the ocean at the right spots. Bans are nice, destructive force against adversaries works better though. Hard to take the selfish out of the human, so you have to engineer systems accordin…

I think it would be a great PR idea for a billionaire to buy a few old ships and use them to drop rocks over the most popular/vulnerable fishing grounds. What happened to rich people who were all not evil?

The truth is that only the evil remain ultra-rich as the rest use their money in ways that depletes there fortunes.

Re: David Attenborough at 99: 'I will not see how the story ends'

#114

Post by marcus_holmes »

ninetyninenine wrote: post #90
marcus_holmes wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very "theory X" - the theory that people only work or do anything if someone in authority forces them to. The other theory, "Theory Y" says that people work because that's what people do, and the function of authority is more about guidance and removal of blockages. I'm a Theory Y believer, and believe that people work together to improve their lives without needing an authority or any compulsion. I believe t…

You're saying this because you actually don't understand a huge part of what I'm talking about: The tragedy of the commons. You didn't look it up, so your answer here is completely mistaken. MY entire ARGUMENT is based on that, and that is EXACTLY what theory Y is. It is the negative consequence of theory Y. You need to understand my argument before responding. Perhaps it's my fault for expecting most people to know…

I wrote out a whole response but decided not to bother replying to this post. I'm not an armchair expert and this kind of ad-hominem bullshit is not worth wasting my time on.

Re: David Attenborough at 99: 'I will not see how the story ends'

#115

Post by Loic »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #49
hermitcrab wrote: post #20

I watched David Attenborough's recent film 'Ocean' on a big screen. The footage of bottom trawling was really shocking. I don't understand how that has been allowed to continue in UK coastal waters, let alone to be subsidised in marine protected areas. Madness. It's like napalming a forest to get a few deer. Thankfully things may be changing: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-proposes-to-ex... Don't know…

Greenpeace used to drop boulders into the ocean to prevent bottom trawling circa 2021-2022. Unsure if they still do. Fairly straightforward to solve for if you’re willing to drop chunks of rock (granite, non reactive) or concrete in the ocean at the right spots. Bans are nice, destructive force against adversaries works better though. Hard to take the selfish out of the human, so you have to engineer systems accordin…

You had this nice story about unusual "boulders" to prevent trawling.

https://www.wired.com/story/underwater-sculptures-stopping-t...

Re: David Attenborough at 99: 'I will not see how the story ends'

#116

Post by closewith »

tomhow wrote: post #107
4gotunameagain wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is a breach of the guidelines (“please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community”), but it is also inaccurate. Most regular participants on HN are employees, not wannabe billionaires.

> Most regular participants on HN are employees, not wannabe billionaires.

You can be both and it would be interesting to see the breakdown of aspirations.

Certainly as the tide of public opinion has turned hard against tech and tech billionaires in the last 5 years, the dominant demographic on HN seems less and less aware of how out-of-touch they are with public opinion at large.

Re: David Attenborough at 99: 'I will not see how the story ends'

#117

Post by closewith »

hermitcrab wrote: post #23
Velorivox wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The relevant excerpt. [0] [0] https://youtu.be/IzG9AwlypaY?feature=shared

Watch it in a cinema, to get the full effect. There are some before and after scenes of the sea bed, which are pretty shocking as well. I'm not sure how that got that footage. Surely fisherman would not want that to be seen?

But watch it anyway. Trawling should be banned.

Re: David Attenborough at 99: 'I will not see how the story ends'

#118

Post by closewith »

abrookewood wrote: post #70
hermitcrab wrote: post #20

I watched David Attenborough's recent film 'Ocean' on a big screen. The footage of bottom trawling was really shocking. I don't understand how that has been allowed to continue in UK coastal waters, let alone to be subsidised in marine protected areas. Madness. It's like napalming a forest to get a few deer. Thankfully things may be changing: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-proposes-to-ex... Don't know…

That part of the film is horrifying. Like genuinely, sick-to-the-stomach horrifying. I can't believe that anyone would willingly cause that much destruction.

> I can't believe that anyone would willingly cause that much destruction.

I interact with fishermen as part of a marine SAR role and there's a significant subset who treat the sea with contempt. Not usual to see them dump rubbish overboard in littoral areas, flicking cigarettes butts into the sea, etc.

Re: David Attenborough at 99: 'I will not see how the story ends'

#119

Post by t0bia_s »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #77
hermitcrab wrote: post #20

I watched David Attenborough's recent film 'Ocean' on a big screen. The footage of bottom trawling was really shocking. I don't understand how that has been allowed to continue in UK coastal waters, let alone to be subsidised in marine protected areas. Madness. It's like napalming a forest to get a few deer. Thankfully things may be changing: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-proposes-to-ex... Don't know…

Stop eating fish. The fishing industry is destroying the oceans.

I like fishes. Fishes are healthy and main source of Omega-3 fatty acid for many.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid

Be aware of pharma propaganda that for sure support any narrations that would make benefit for them, like making any kind of natural sources good for humans as threat, like sunshine or.. Fishes?

Re: David Attenborough at 99: 'I will not see how the story ends'

#120

Post by pyrale »

GoatInGrey wrote: post #43
ropable wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relying on market forces to mitigate/address the impact of climate change will require us to collectively impose actual market pressure (i.e. regulation, constraints) to do so. Not seeing much sign of that among the major contributors of emissions right at the moment.

That's because very few people are being meaningfully affected right now. For most, climate change exists as an abstract idea and not an immediate, physical problem. It doesn't help that claims like those made by Al Gore about the polar ice caps being gone by 2016 turned out to be untrue. I wouldn't expect society to transform itself if told that an asteroid may impact Earth in eighty years, for similar reasons.

> That's because very few people are being meaningfully affected right now.

Once we're all at the edge of extinction, the markets will provide?

If that's your point, your idea of capitalism is a cargo cult.

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