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Show HN - We just built a site that saves lives

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Re: Show HN - We just built a site that saves lives

#171
post #168
post #146

Does it bother you that you are subsidizing defective genetics and thus making humanity less fit and thus increasing the average level of suffering? You might think you are being nice by decreasing the suffering of an individual, but you are also dooming consciousness to suffer being born into a defective host that otherwise would not have happened if not for your subsidization of defective genetics. I am curious as…

I have never commented before, but I had to reply to this. I assume you are being serious, but hope you just have a twisted sense of humor, or perhaps you have just read too much Schopenhauer recently. I believe that just because someone is born with a disadvantage or have health issues does not mean they are defective. Everyone has as much a right to life as anyone else. In support of your beliefs, I would be intere…

No, I am not joking at all. This is a serious mater. Unless you want humanity to eventually degenerate to beyond even the point where everyone is dependent on multiple surgeries simply to live past just being born, then this is something that needs to be though about, discussed, and rectified - no mater how difficult a subject.

Some of your questions appear to me to be purposely absurd in order to make the topic seem absurd. To answer your first question though, which is a reasonable one: It may not be a simple answer of some point is too defective, but the answer there must obviously be something other than the current idea that no level of defectiveness is too defective to be aided to breed more unfortunate burdened souls. My personal feeling is that the line has to be somewhere around being too defective to live without medical intervention beyond childhood or perhaps better is the point before one is otherwise able to have children and raise and support them to the age where they are self supportive.

Your pointing out that the issue is a complex one with no easy answer does not justify the continued destructive course that humanity is treading down.

Regardless of how hard an issue it is to solve, it must be recognized that the current setup of unlimited medical intervention to keep people alive and breeding, no mater how defective, in fact results in a degenerating gene pool, a downward spiral of suffering. This is the true reason why medicare costs keep increasing to the point now where it is the majority expenditure of any western nation (even in America, it is greater there than how much is spent on the military). Again you can see why the medical industrial complex is set on continuing this trend. If not for the limits of economics, this would eventually consume all resources of the world just to keep itself alive with medicine.

In some countries this has led to the talk of not providing medical intervention for some groups of people who need it to survive. Unfortunately the talk is always around not giving it to the old people in order to save money. While they may seem less important to save, it is actually the wrong group to withhold intervention from, as saving old people is not destructive to the gene pool. They need to start talking about withholding it from the opposite end of the age spectrum.

Re: Show HN - We just built a site that saves lives

#172
I love this, I use Kiva and the rewards are wonderful as is their way of keeping my money in circulation. But I'm not a U.S. citizen so I only donate a small amount because it's not tax-deductable in my country. You know what I would love? Some one to build a global non-profit money distribution center, so I can donate a lot more in my country and the money can go where I choose. Right now I keep my donations limited in price unless it's a local charity to my tax country and I'd like to see that change.

Re: Show HN - We just built a site that saves lives

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we need video of the process. If the people want to do it fine, but making them put on a show of themselves I think is a bit much. As a person, not only are you sick and need help from others but you need to be a documentary just to prove to people you aren't a scam, little much -- it's one thing to have a photo and story so it makes it real but as long as there is some trusted third party verification,…

I really like that you brought up third-party verification. We think that's the most efficient and responsible way to scale our due-diligence process. Currently, in addition to being verified by us, all of our partners have been verified by multiple third parties (Partners in Health, Givewell, CNN, ABC, HBO, etc.) and they are all 501(c)(3) organizations which means that they are also overseen by the US Gov. I agree…

> they are all 501(c)(3) organizations which means that they are also overseen by the US Gov.

The US govt does not do significant oversight of 501(c)(3) organizations. They don't care at all about effectiveness.

Re: Show HN - We just built a site that saves lives

#174

This is "Death panels" in a fancy suit. Bid on life saving medical treatment from a thumbnail? By someones looks? and a possibly fabricated story? So now we the internet get to decide who lives and dies? Who has a healthy fulfilling life and who lives with disease and disability? Idk about this idea. Its well intentioned, but oh so wrong all at the same time. This type of charity should be first come first serve to b…

Not really. There are children on there I see who aren't "cute", cleft palates and all.

I really feel your argument is specious. Having a photo of the child allows you to see the human face of misery.

Re: Show HN - We just built a site that saves lives

#175
post #171
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never commented before, but I had to reply to this. I assume you are being serious, but hope you just have a twisted sense of humor, or perhaps you have just read too much Schopenhauer recently. I believe that just because someone is born with a disadvantage or have health issues does not mean they are defective. Everyone has as much a right to life as anyone else. In support of your beliefs, I would be intere…

No, I am not joking at all. This is a serious mater. Unless you want humanity to eventually degenerate to beyond even the point where everyone is dependent on multiple surgeries simply to live past just being born, then this is something that needs to be though about, discussed, and rectified - no mater how difficult a subject. Some of your questions appear to me to be purposely absurd in order to make the topic seem…

The issue is only complex because you believe that some people have inferior DNA than other people, and you posit that there exists some people who are "defective", and who should not pass on their genes through reproduction.

Your reasoning is absurd, and has been demonstrated as such by the questions asked of you. Such questioning is part of a valid form of argument known as reductio ad absurdum. It has the unfortunate (some would argue fortunate!) side effect of making the one putting forwarded the invalid argument look ridiculous.

Of course, sometimes reducing to the absurd occurs in reality. It wasn't that long ago that sterilisation of those deemed "defective" was being done in first world countries such as the U.S. Your ideas are a branch of eugenics, which has been widely discredited for some time now.

So before you tell the readership of HN that the idea should be taken seriously, I regret to inform you that not only have people done so, but the majority categorically reject it for extremely good reasons.

Re: Show HN - We just built a site that saves lives

#176
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I am not joking at all. This is a serious mater. Unless you want humanity to eventually degenerate to beyond even the point where everyone is dependent on multiple surgeries simply to live past just being born, then this is something that needs to be though about, discussed, and rectified - no mater how difficult a subject. Some of your questions appear to me to be purposely absurd in order to make the topic seem…

The issue is only complex because you believe that some people have inferior DNA than other people, and you posit that there exists some people who are "defective", and who should not pass on their genes through reproduction. Your reasoning is absurd, and has been demonstrated as such by the questions asked of you. Such questioning is part of a valid form of argument known as reductio ad absurdum . It has the unfortu…

If a program's code (DNA) has bugs that cause the system to fail when running without expensive workarounds (medical intervention), would that not be called bugs in the code? Also called defects? Thus it is defective code that cannot run without expensive workarounds.

Your understanding of what is eugenics is flawed. What I am talking about is not eugenics. Eugenics is artificial selection for attempted good. What is happening is artificial selection that results in degeneration, which is bad. That is called dysgenics. I am against that, and thus you can only call my argument anti-dysgenic.

Anyways, it is your comment that is absurd, as demonstrated by the majority of it being an insult. Try to remain civil - it better facilitates enlightenment of all parties to the discussion.

Re: Show HN - We just built a site that saves lives

#177
post #10

Great idea! Questions: how do you select who gets on the site? What protections are in place to prevent scammers listing fake illnesses? What proof is required before funding is handed over? Is funding handed to patient or doctor or someone else??

All great questions brador. 1) We work very closely with our Medical Partners to identify the lowest-cost, highest-impact profiles possible. Their Doctors identify the patients based on our criteria, and then we verify and accept the profiles as we receive them. 2) We only deal with our Medical Partners. Funds are sent directly to the partner to pay for the cost of treatment, and NEVER sent to the patient. The patien…

Just because a Medical Partner has fame does not mean that they are trustworthy!

I am concerned about fraud from MP's, especially as you expand and add more of them. One of the techniques that Kiva uses is sending out Kiva Fellows who, among other things, verify and audit the local bank's process and borrowers.

As you scale, you need to build in verification processes. As someone who has been living and volunteering for an NGO in Africa, I can't stress how important it is to build in transparency and accountability systems - on the ground. Fraud is rampant, even by doctors (for example, at a public hospital, the poor have to bribe the doctors to be soon in a reasonable amount of time). You don't want to create a situation similar to this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/nov/14/orphans-...

And there are three cases that immediately come to mind to worry about: 1) Is the patient real, 2) Is the patient truly in need, and 3) Is the cost of the treatment true?

All in all, it's a great idea. I implore you to please execute well to maximize impact and minimize unintended negative consequences. There are too many projects out here that were started with great intentions but end up doing more harm than good on the ground.

Re: Show HN - We just built a site that saves lives

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we need video of the process. If the people want to do it fine, but making them put on a show of themselves I think is a bit much. As a person, not only are you sick and need help from others but you need to be a documentary just to prove to people you aren't a scam, little much -- it's one thing to have a photo and story so it makes it real but as long as there is some trusted third party verification,…

I really like that you brought up third-party verification. We think that's the most efficient and responsible way to scale our due-diligence process. Currently, in addition to being verified by us, all of our partners have been verified by multiple third parties (Partners in Health, Givewell, CNN, ABC, HBO, etc.) and they are all 501(c)(3) organizations which means that they are also overseen by the US Gov. I agree…

Please be careful and ensure that your partners have been verified, evaluated and audited regularly by experts who specialize in it and are on the ground. For example, CNN, ABC, and HBO are not experts in this area and are by no means doing it on an ongoing basis. The partner can easily showcase needy cases when the cameras show up for a week and then go back to scamming once the cameras leave.

A 501(c)(3) means that it is a type of legal entity with certain tax benefits. It is not overseen by the US Government, except by the IRS to make sure for example that it is not a business pretending to be a non-profit. They do zero checks on efficacy and impact.

Re: Show HN - We just built a site that saves lives

#180
post #146

Does it bother you that you are subsidizing defective genetics and thus making humanity less fit and thus increasing the average level of suffering? You might think you are being nice by decreasing the suffering of an individual, but you are also dooming consciousness to suffer being born into a defective host that otherwise would not have happened if not for your subsidization of defective genetics. I am curious as…

It's only a problem when people with clearly defective genes are having children.

It's ok to cure people with defective genes as long as they do not breed.

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