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US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

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Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#421

Post by wesselbindt »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #413
wesselbindt wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In their moral justification, the argument of the lesser evil has played a prominent role. If you are confronted with two evils, the argument runs, it is your duty to opt for the lesser one, whereas it is irresponsible to refuse to choose altogether. Its weakness has always been that those who choose the lesser evil forget quickly that they chose evil." Crazy how well this Hannah Arendt quote applies to both you and…

'Anti US bias' (that's a direct quote, not a jingoistic insult I throw around) is different than a refusal to choose between evils.

Ok, from what you say, I get the sense that the applicability of the quote is non-obvious. I'll paraphrase the quote: "people who choose the lesser of two evils, forget that they chose evil".

In our conversation, we are essentially choosing between two parties: - The nazis, or the communists, or whatever. Let's call them the baddies. - America. The good guys!

I personally believe (and you do not have to agree with this, I realize that this is subjective) that murdering children and committing genocide is evil. The nazis committed a genocide, and so they are evil. Let's say the holodomor was a genocide, so the communists are evil too. Conclusion: the baddies are evil. It is also a fact that in the past 75 years or so, America has gone around the globe murdering children, and committing genocides. This is not up for debate. This is a fact. I have listed the examples countless times in this thread, I will not do so again. Conclusion: the good guys are also evil (if you believe murdering children is bad, which again, totally up to you).

In saying "but the nazis were worse!" in response to American murdering a million Koreans, you are effectively choosing the lesser evil (the nazis killed 6 million jews, 30 million Russians, in a fairly short timespan, whereas the US has killed about 12 million over the decades, the nazis are worse). And in saying that we did pretty well in the American century, you are dismissing the genocides, the murders, the torture that the US is responsible for. You're forgetting that the US is also evil. When you say we did alright under American hegemony, you are completely dismissing the suffering, overexploitation, destabilization, and violence that the US has meted out on the global South.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#423

Post by akerl_ »

Intermernet wrote: post #419
tptacek wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason I won't name them --- the ones I know about, a fraction of the total market --- it's not interesting, and I'm not going to get into it.

I'm interested, and I'm sure I'm not alone. This isn't easily researched information, and it would be nice to have a list of organisations to put on my boycott list. These companies should be named and shamed. They have no positive influence on the world. If they disclosed instead of exploited the vulnerabilities they have knowledge of, they would improve the security of most of the world's population. Instead, they…

You'd boycott these companies, that you don't know who they are? It's not much of a boycott to stop doing business with companies you already aren't doing business with.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#424

Post by chaosbolt »

hersko wrote: post #103
chaosbolt wrote: post #59

[flagged]

> -The bald eagle that is also the only country in history to have nuked two civilian cities. It was this or invade which would have easily resulted in more casualties. Pretending the US just nuked them when the other option was nothing is childish. > - Its best friend, the country that's commiting a genocide in 2025 and that you cannot criticize. Ongoing wars in 2025 and casualty numbers according to Grok: - Russia-…

If only you knew how you sounded.

First of all you count wars that started more than 10 years ago in the same category, so that's dishonest.

Second you use reduced numbers for Israel-Gaza war.

Third you call it Israel-Hamas war.

About the nuking of Japan: listen up, there is nothing you can say, it's a case of the midwit meme, anyone smart enough or dumb enough would tell you it's obvious nuking 2 cities is evil, it's basically the definition of evil, all men are at war so you nuke 2 cities filled with women and kids... Now it's the midwit's opinion that's curious, being just smart enough to repeat the brainwashing that's been done to him in a coherent way, but not smart enough to notice the holes in his arguments, the midwit always holds these surreal opinions like how nuking 2 cities was the only choice (and not done as a warning to the soviet union, because God forbids governments do something bad like this, it's instead a conspiracy theory, and the real life event is a cartoonishly evil side vs a cartoonishly good side, and everything the cartoonishly good side does is good and can be explained including nuling 2 cities etc.)

If only you could take a step back and reflect on what you wrote with an open mind.... but then again if this was possible there'd be a lot less wars, and the bad people would know it while being bad and not 100 years later have it explained to their grandchildren.

But hey who cares, the situation is so fucked up and the people so clueless we might as well be living in some sort of simulation so it doesn't matter either ways.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#425

Post by sReinwald »

tptacek wrote: post #404
sReinwald wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue isn't the mere existence of spyware companies globally. The issue is that Israeli companies in particular have cornered the market on selling to the world's worst human rights abusers, with catastrophic consequences. Let's be specific: NSO Group sold Pegasus to Saudi Arabia, who used it to track Jamal Khashoggi's inner circle before his assassination. They sold to Mexico, where it was used to target journal…

[flagged]

And why have I heard about them? I'll give you a hint: It's not because they have a fantastic marketing and PR department. It's because their product kept showing up on the phones of assassinated journalists and imprisoned dissidents.

I looked you up a bit. You clearly know this industry. So when you say there are American companies with "more effective" tools than NSO, I have to assume you're not speaking hypothetically - you're speaking from professional knowledge.

Your response is like a chemical industry veteran hearing about a company that poisoned a river and killed dozens, then saying "you're only mad at ACME Chemicals because you've heard of them."

That leaves two possibilities:

- You know other companies are doing comparable harm and you're remarkably comfortable with it

- You're defending a uniquely destructive company by falsely equating it with legitimate businesses

Either way, you're using your industry credibility to minimize documented atrocities. Given your expertise, that's clearly not ignorance - it's a choice.

Which are you, Thomas? Someone with inside knowledge of comparable human rights abuses who's been sitting on it? Or someone minimizing documented atrocities to defend your industry's reputation?

The spotlight on NSO exists because of the graves they helped fill. Your response tells us exactly where you stand on that.

Have a fantastic day, I hope you pass a mirror or two and can actually stand looking at yourself.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#426

Post by curseofcasandra »

ashoeafoot wrote: post #311
bilalq wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chomsky described these countries as "mercenary states". One of his books, Understanding Power, dives into the topic quite a bit.

Chomsky has supported "anti-imperialist" russia and ignored all warnings by the eastern European people, who dared to walk out on socialism in a freedom movement. Blood on the hands, blood on the quill, blood in the will..

Chomsky is right about some things and wrong about other things, like every human is.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#427

Post by kennywinker »

bobmcnamara wrote: post #420
kennywinker wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it not? If someone is raised catholic it’s best to assume they’re still catholic unless they disavow catholicism - in which case they are an ex-catholic

Sound like you might be an a-stamp-collector.

Lol. Don’t mix up your sock puppet accounts there bud ;P

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#428

Post by [deleted] »

tptacek wrote: post #291
slim wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how come each time researchers find a new spyware, it's always an Israeli shop behind it ? maybe because Israel has developed an ecosystem and an industry around spying. I think it's evil to try to deflect the blame from israel given the fact it's currently committing genocide in Palestine

Based on what you're saying, I think I know more about this market than you do. I'm comfortable with who does and does not take me seriously. For those people who do: this "Israel" stuff is not useful for understanding what's happening in the world with respect to CNE tools.

[deleted]

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#429

Post by keybored »

gtsop wrote: post #191
pkkkzip wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This type of comment I find very peculiar, it attempts to normalize the intimidation and censorship of truths when we know that isn't the consensus nor desired. Overall, very disappointing to come on HN and find any thread critical of this one country results in mass flagging, censorship and hasbara EVERY SINGLE TIME

> , it attempts to normalize the intimidation and censorship of truths Very muddying statement. The normalization of intimidation and censorship has already happened by those in power, a comment can only acknowledge the reality of it. > when we know that isn't the consensus nor desired. by who? Crearly a lot of very powerful people desire it very very much.

A comment stating “who cares?” evidently seeks to normalize, legitimize, pacify dissent, and breed apathy.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#430

Post by bobmcnamara »

kennywinker wrote: post #427
bobmcnamara wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sound like you might be an a-stamp-collector.

Lol. Don’t mix up your sock puppet accounts there bud ;P

Nope.

It was an atheism joke.

But fairly niche outside of that.

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