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Apple and Samsung Should Fight in the Marketplace, not the Courtroom

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Re: Apple and Samsung Should Fight in the Marketplace, not the Courtroom

#71

Post by swah »

cageface wrote: post #21
mrharrison wrote: post #3

Well the consumer most benefits, if companies are continuously innovative, not copying each other and selling for cheaper. This article missed the point. Why doesn't Samsung actually make something better than the iPhone. Not some cheap ripoff.

They have. I have both an iPhone 4S and a Galaxy S3 and the 4S has been relegated to app testing duty because the S3 is a better phone in almost every respect. It doesn't have quite the same level of polish that the iPhone does but it more than makes up for it with a richer, more flexible feature set and a much bigger and more usable screen. I don't think anybody that's spent any length of time actually using a recen…

Happy to hear that - I've bought an LG O2X with 512mb RAM (because it was half the price (Brazil) of the Samsung S2) and I was/am completely disappointed with the quality of experience (with a hacked ICS that gets slower and slower in a few days, another day I counted 30 seconds to open the Twitter app) and support LG gave (0, no official ICS and the phone is already dated).

Re: Apple and Samsung Should Fight in the Marketplace, not the Courtroom

#72

Post by richworks »

mrharrison wrote: post #3

Well the consumer most benefits, if companies are continuously innovative, not copying each other and selling for cheaper. This article missed the point. Why doesn't Samsung actually make something better than the iPhone. Not some cheap ripoff.

Apart from the original Galaxy S, no other Samsung phone is even remotely close looking as the iPhone. Perhaps the Galaxy tab could also make it to this list but the innovation margin in the tablet design space is very little(They did alter the design later however)

Re: Apple and Samsung Should Fight in the Marketplace, not the Courtroom

#73

Post by bornhuetter »

arihant wrote: post #39

If a company is making a product which people switch every two years, and if a competitor is shamelessly ripping off features, it is extremely insulting and awfully naive for them not to seek legal measures. Imagine if people switched social networks every two years, and Twitter copied everything Facebook comes up with. What in the OP's mind should Facebook do? Ignore and compete? Probably not. Protect and compete? M…

> Imagine if people switched social networks every two years, and Twitter copied everything Facebook comes up with.

Imagine if Facebook had not been allowed to copy any features of social networking sites that came before it.

Imagine if no other phone company had been able to borrow ideas from Motorola.

Android phones are obviously very different from iPhones. Sure they both borrow ideas from eachother, but that's in everyone's best interest.

The idea that an entire market should come to a standstill as soon as the first entrant comes along, until someone comes up with a radically different way of doing things, is utterly ridiculous.

Re: Apple and Samsung Should Fight in the Marketplace, not the Courtroom

#74

Post by bornhuetter »

nirvana wrote: post #53
arihant wrote: post #39

If a company is making a product which people switch every two years, and if a competitor is shamelessly ripping off features, it is extremely insulting and awfully naive for them not to seek legal measures. Imagine if people switched social networks every two years, and Twitter copied everything Facebook comes up with. What in the OP's mind should Facebook do? Ignore and compete? Probably not. Protect and compete? M…

You make good points, and it is worth noting that, unlike Samsung, microsoft has a license from Apple to use Apple's technology. (they have a cross licensing agreement) That agreement prohibits copying. As a result, Microsoft made a touch screen based UI, but made an innovative one. Whether Microsofts work is good or not, it is clear that they tried something very new (unlike Android which is a replication of the iPh…

> people are so defensive of products that are simple copies of others when Google does it

You are honestly trying to say that Android is just a simple copy of iPhone? Honestly?

Frothing at the mouth fanboyism like this really detracts from the credibility of HN as a source of serious discussion.

Re: Apple and Samsung Should Fight in the Marketplace, not the Courtroom

#75

Post by arihant »

bornhuetter wrote: post #73
arihant wrote: post #39

If a company is making a product which people switch every two years, and if a competitor is shamelessly ripping off features, it is extremely insulting and awfully naive for them not to seek legal measures. Imagine if people switched social networks every two years, and Twitter copied everything Facebook comes up with. What in the OP's mind should Facebook do? Ignore and compete? Probably not. Protect and compete? M…

> Imagine if people switched social networks every two years, and Twitter copied everything Facebook comes up with. Imagine if Facebook had not been allowed to copy any features of social networking sites that came before it. Imagine if no other phone company had been able to borrow ideas from Motorola. Android phones are obviously very different from iPhones. Sure they both borrow ideas from eachother, but that's in…

Well, even Nokia and Microsoft in principle borrowed from iPhone and Android success. Nobody is blaming them. Because everyone can see that they haven't copied. They have borrowed and "built upon" the state of the art.

Android has shamelessly copied iPhone. Show this image to one's mom and ask her which one is iPhone: http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/images/2012/8/24//201282452...

iPhone wasn't a direct rip off of any Moto phone. Android is a rip off of iPhone. Before iPhone was launched, Andoird was a rip off of Blackberry. It amazes me how Google uses open source wildcard to mind-wash hackers.

When MS "borrowed idea" of GUI from Apple, whose best interest did it work for? I do not see how encouraging copy cats would work in everyone's best interest.

Re: Apple and Samsung Should Fight in the Marketplace, not the Courtroom

#76

Post by bornhuetter »

arihant wrote: post #75
bornhuetter wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine if people switched social networks every two years, and Twitter copied everything Facebook comes up with. Imagine if Facebook had not been allowed to copy any features of social networking sites that came before it. Imagine if no other phone company had been able to borrow ideas from Motorola. Android phones are obviously very different from iPhones. Sure they both borrow ideas from eachother, but that's in…

Well, even Nokia and Microsoft in principle borrowed from iPhone and Android success. Nobody is blaming them. Because everyone can see that they haven't copied. They have borrowed and "built upon" the state of the art. Android has shamelessly copied iPhone. Show this image to one's mom and ask her which one is iPhone: http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/images/2012/8/24//201282452... iPhone wasn't a direct rip off of an…

Well if the photo hadn't been doctored, it would be quite easy to tell - the one with SAMSUNG written in large friendly letters across the top is the Samsung. I won't bother going through the other reasons why that photo comparison is deliberately misleading, I'm sure you already know.

> When MS "borrowed idea" of GUI from Apple

When MS borrowed the idea of a GUI from Xerox, it was in the interest of all consumers.

Can you imagine a world there there was only one company making GUIs, one company making phones, one company making each item in each product category?

Android was clearly inspired by many aspects of the iPhone. I could point to dozens of aspects of the iPhone that was inspired by earlier phones.

Granting monopolies on entire broad product categories would be a disaster for everyone.

Re: Apple and Samsung Should Fight in the Marketplace, not the Courtroom

#78

Post by cageface »

swah wrote: post #71
cageface wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have. I have both an iPhone 4S and a Galaxy S3 and the 4S has been relegated to app testing duty because the S3 is a better phone in almost every respect. It doesn't have quite the same level of polish that the iPhone does but it more than makes up for it with a richer, more flexible feature set and a much bigger and more usable screen. I don't think anybody that's spent any length of time actually using a recen…

Happy to hear that - I've bought an LG O2X with 512mb RAM (because it was half the price (Brazil) of the Samsung S2) and I was/am completely disappointed with the quality of experience (with a hacked ICS that gets slower and slower in a few days, another day I counted 30 seconds to open the Twitter app) and support LG gave (0, no official ICS and the phone is already dated).

The fascinating thing about Android is that the same model seems to produce the best devices and also absolute trash. I think this is just the price you pay for diversity but I also thing diversity will win out in the long run in this market. Apple's one-size-fits all model is just too limited.

Re: Apple and Samsung Should Fight in the Marketplace, not the Courtroom

#79

Post by jaekwon »

v0cab wrote: post #67
jaekwon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to live in a world where this is OK and expected. I expect competitors to build upon my work and I would love to see them win. Apple had already won my respect and loyalty with the iPhone and iOS. They lost my respect when they went against Samsung.

Samsung own the South Korean government. Samsung had the government delay the introduction of the iPhone to South Korea to give them time to clone it (the phone that Apple was paying them to manufacture!), so that they'd at least find it easier to break their domestic market with their clone. Apple lost your respect for going against this? If you were Apple, you would love to see Samsung win?

Yes. Any entity can try to delay the deployment of a product that I try to sell to them. This entity can also try to reverse engineer my product.

If Samsung and South Korea had such a tie, that's a problem for them and their citizens. To Apple, they are an encapsulated entity, and Apple chose to deal with them.

Apple can try to get the US, or states within the US to blockade the import of Samsung devices in retribution, but again this is our problem. It harms the US consumers and innovators by restricting the sales of an "immitation". Apple is hurting my future as a potential mobile device innovator. Apple is hurting itself in exchange for short term profits, as it continues to extract profits via the wrong means.

Re: Apple and Samsung Should Fight in the Marketplace, not the Courtroom

#80

Post by its_so_on »

tjoff wrote: post #30
Blara wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm some sort of über Mensch, but I have no difficulty at all to separate an iP* for a ditto samsung version...

The problem is that for a lot of people there is only one smartphone. So if a phone has a large screen it is an iPhone, makes it kind of hard to design a smartphone that doesn't look like... a smartphone. Just as for many an "iphone compatible car" is the same as "it has a 3.5mm socket". For those that honestly are confused I guess they should be really happy about LCD TVs, otherwise they might have ended up with a m…

meh. for me the iconic style of LCD/TV is the Samsung style. No one copied it too closely for me ever to be confused and think a TV was a samsung. In fact, this is true for Audis and BMW's that kind of look like an iconic Mercedes, and so on. There are lots of products that take design cues, none of them have ever actually confused me. Except Samsung's iPhones (less so recently) and Samsung's iPads (very much still.)

I'm talking about "at a glance" or the briefest moment of confusion, as a highly informed consumer. Never happened with anything else. Doesn't happen with Samsung's current phones.

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