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US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

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Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#321
post #17

There is now a rich history in outsourcing activities that would otherwise be illegal to other countries where it is legal. For example, the CIA's extreme rendition [1], knowingly sending prisoners to countries to be tortured and/or executed. This is how such countries make themselves useful to American empire. Likewise, restrictions on the NSA spying on American citizens, for example, are bypassed by outsourcing tha…

Auschwitz wasn't in Germany.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#322
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is both a close U.S. ally and a pariah state in the eyes of much of the international community due to its policies toward Palestinians, creating cognitive dissonance for those who support democratic values yet continue to justify or overlook actions widely seen as violations of human rights. But not for you.

Sorry what? I’m not a fan of Israel, but clearly Israel is not a “pariah state” because you and I don’t like them.

It's not my claim. BBC and other news outlets are running stories stating that "Israel is becoming s pariah state".

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#323
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is both a close U.S. ally and a pariah state in the eyes of much of the international community due to its policies toward Palestinians, creating cognitive dissonance for those who support democratic values yet continue to justify or overlook actions widely seen as violations of human rights. But not for you.

Sorry what? I’m not a fan of Israel, but clearly Israel is not a “pariah state” because you and I don’t like them.

The Prime Minister has been sanctioned by the International Criminal Court. Even close allies (e.g., the UK and France) are engaged in some serious backside-covering right now on their relationship with Israel. They know how this is going to end and they're now into doing the comms to make themselves look less bad when it happens.

I'd say Israel is -- in terms of it's international reputation -- somewhere between where South Africa was in the eighties and Serbia was in the nineties, and deteriorating fast. Definitely on the pariah spectrum, particularly outside of the US.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your definition of fascist and what is your argument that Meloni's party is fascist? I'm not arguing or disagreeing with you -- genuinely curious about your perspective. The most damning bit in her Wikipedia article is this: "In 1992 Meloni joined the Youth Front, the youth wing of the Italian Social Movement (MSI), a neo-fascist political party founded in 1946 by followers of Italian fascism. She later became…

France's RN appears moderated. They are financed by Putin, my friend [1]. Meloni's coalition party also has ties with Russia [2]. [1] https://www.politico.eu/article/marine-le-pen-plays-down-her... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/12/matteo-salvini...

To expand a bit, Matteo Salivni is the leader of Lega (formerly Lega Nord), the other far-right party in Italy's government.

Salvini's ties to Russia of course go way beyond a couple Aeroflot tickets: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/albertonardelli/salvini...

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#325
post #312
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The misuse of such tools outweighs the legitimate use cases, so people want to know who is so reckless to sell these programs Do you have any evidence of this? Cause my guess is the misuse is the stuff you hear about because it eventually makes the news. But the thousands or millions of legitimate use cases in which it prevented terror attacks or just, y'know, helped solved crimes, are just routine and don't get a…

It's simple math. What happens more often terror attacks which aren't easy to plan and do or journalists and activists do something the people in power don't like. And how often are tools that were promised to be used only to combat serious crimes such as terrorism and child abuse used for the worst of all crimes: Copyright piracy

It's not simple math, because you're ignoring my point - that you don't actually know how often the tools are used in ways you find morally correct, because those don't get publicized.

I'm not saying I have a clue what the answer is - I'm certainly very skeptical of invasive technologies. But I think pretending there's no upside to them is wrong. Like most technologies there are pros and cons. Probably the system in most Western democracies works relatively well - there are adverserial members of the system trying to prove and/or refute the idea that the tool use is necessary, a judge has to sign off, there are checks and balances (including free press) on abuse, etc.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#326
post #17

There is now a rich history in outsourcing activities that would otherwise be illegal to other countries where it is legal. For example, the CIA's extreme rendition [1], knowingly sending prisoners to countries to be tortured and/or executed. This is how such countries make themselves useful to American empire. Likewise, restrictions on the NSA spying on American citizens, for example, are bypassed by outsourcing tha…

Auschwitz wasn't in Germany.

and? was build by german in german occupied Poland

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I provided three facts and an opinion that 1200 years of rule created a mindset that would not allow for the independence of those considered "inferior". You also realize that this 1200 year rule was based on violent conquest, slavery, ethnic cleaning, genocide, and apartheid. Your response is all conjecture and assumptions. There is no reason that there could not have been peace with two states in 1947.…

Stop trying to revise history. The Jews in Palestine were living happily alongside the Muslims. Problems didn’t start until the European Jews arrived to implement Zionism. The end of Ottoman Empire was decades before Zionist terrorists founded Israel (Lehi, Irgun, Haganah). These are facts. Israel was founded on theft and by ethnically cleansing Palestine of its indigenous people through non-stop atrocities and terro…

No revision of history here.

The Jews were living "happily" alongside the Muslims in the same way Native Americans have been living "happily" alongside the Europeans for the past 150 years. What choice do they have ?

Fact: non-muslims lived as Dhimmi, meaning they paid a special tax to keep their "protected" status, which meant they would not be killed or enslaved. They could not bear witness against a Muslim, they could not carry a weapon, they could not use the same type of transport (horse vs donkey),could not build or live in housing that was taller or grander than a Muslim, had to wear clothing to distinguish them from a Muslim, etc.

Calling this "happy" is no better than the southern racists who want to go back to a time when everyone was "happier".

fact: The end of the Ottoman Empire did end decades before Israel was founded. It ended in 1920 when they lost the war with the west and were broken up. In 1924, the caliphate was ended. The violence started in 1920 as there was no one able to enforce the "peace" Jews killed Arabs. Arabs killed Jews. Jews and Arabs killed the British.

fact: It was the two Islamic empires that were founded on theft, war, slavery, ethnic cleansing, genocide, and apartheid. The last genocide of the Ottoman Empire was during WW1 when they killed 1.5M Christians simply because they were afraid of them joining the west. Maybe because they knew that those Christians were not "happy" ?

fact: Israel was founded in 1948, and it was because of this the Arab world waged war. The Arab world lost the war, and it was the result of this losing the war they themselves started that populations shifted. More Jews than Arabs lost their lands and possessions.

fact: for the first 20 years if Israel's existence, the lands designated for the Palestinian nation were ruled by Egypt and Jordan. Israel spent this time building a nation. What did the Palestinians do ?

fact: The Palestinians and their descendants (now total 2M) who chose to stay in 1948 and live in peace now live under equal laws and have 10 times the prosperity of those living in Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon. So, it is quite possible for Palestinians and Jews to live in peace.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is both a close U.S. ally and a pariah state in the eyes of much of the international community due to its policies toward Palestinians, creating cognitive dissonance for those who support democratic values yet continue to justify or overlook actions widely seen as violations of human rights. But not for you.

[flagged]

What does that even mean?

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#329
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> -The bald eagle that is also the only country in history to have nuked two civilian cities. It was this or invade which would have easily resulted in more casualties. Pretending the US just nuked them when the other option was nothing is childish. > - Its best friend, the country that's commiting a genocide in 2025 and that you cannot criticize. Ongoing wars in 2025 and casualty numbers according to Grok: - Russia-…

Your numbers ignore the distinction between combatants and civilians killed. It also does not include those who are killed as a by product of the war. The number you mentioned is how many Israel directly killed. This ignores: * People who died out of starvation (especially kids and newborns) due to Israel's blockade * People who died due to lack of medicine due to Israel's blockade * People who died to the worsening…

It's hilarious that this figure keeps getting quoted with a link to a source that directly contradicts it.

> Armed conflicts have indirect health implications beyond the direct harm from violence. Even if the conflict ends immediately, there will continue to be many indirect deaths in the coming months and years [...] In recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from three to 15 times the number of direct deaths . Applying a conservative estimate of four indirect deaths per one direct death to the 37 396 deaths reported, it is not implausible to estimate that up to 186 000 or even more deaths could be attributable to the current conflict in Gaza.

The text is not claiming that 200,000 people at the point of publishing have died, it is estimating the number of deaths attributed to the conflict in the coming years.

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