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US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

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Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#261

Post by ty6853 »

kennywinker wrote: post #251
ty6853 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethnic/religious persecution amongst other ethnic/religious groups being the origin of Jewish strife is literally the ideology written by Herzl in the groundwork that argued for Israel, noting incompatibility with living amongst other ethnic groups in Europe, and I would note somewhat accurately considering the Nazis (and others) indeed went on an ethnically aligned campaign to kill them all off. Unwittingly, you are…

> Unwittingly, you are arguing the foundation of Israel is Nazi ideology. You don’t say?? A state that can only exist as the result of ethnic cleansing? A state that is currently committing numerous acts of genocide? Huhhh.

Lol so all that just to decide we agree with each other.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#262

Post by davidf18 »

ty6853 wrote: post #225
kennywinker wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JFC this is a really intensely bad line of thinking. This is literally the kind of zero-sum win or lose kill or be killed thinking that lead to the holocaust. There are so so so many other possible way to achieve peace that don’t involve the death of millions. You very well might have applied this same logic to ireland during the troubles, and advocated for the extermination of all irish-Catholics or all irish-Protes…

If the Arabs had just wiped out the settlers establishing Der Judenstaat near the turn of the 20th century, I have a real hard time coming to a calculus where it wouldn't have been more peaceful death tally than where we are at now.

[dead]

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#263

Post by FridayoLeary »

kennywinker wrote: post #255
FridayoLeary wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where a certain group is inherently suspicious and have no rights what group? If you mean arabs, israeli arabs enjoy full citizenship rights. > zionist values are "we are god's chosen", no holds barred "war on terror" with no due process, invoking religous amalek to commit genocide. That's some very specific claims. I challenge you to show any evidence for this. >Zionist values have been forced onto the west over t…

> what group? If you mean arabs, israeli arabs enjoy full citizenship rights. Disingenuous. The existence of arab israelis who enjoy some degree of equality within israel doesn’t refute the existence of an apartheid. A gazan can’t just decide they’re cool with israel and travel freely around the country they are occupied within.

>who enjoy some degree of equality

That's a malicious misrepresentation. They enjoy the same rights and protections as any other citizen according to the law.

The rest of your comment is down to some hideously complicated political arrangements peace treaties etc where most arabs living in israel prefer their own state and citizenship.

At the least it 's an extremely strange apartheid when 2 million arabs are not part of it.

Also as far as i can tell there has been very limited israeli presence in Gaza between 2006-23. If you insist that your thread of logic is still correct you have to continue down that path and say that Egypt is also an apartheid state and they are occupying gaza as well.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#264

Post by propagandist »

breppp wrote: post #45
propagandist wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fighting crime, for example by spying on a WaPo columnist and then strangling him at a consular mission in Turkey and chopping up his body, to then dissolve it in acid. That's what this company's software is used for. Good luck to them shifting focus to the bad actors they choose to do business with.

That is not the same company, and as I said above, you expect something else from Italy compared to the Saudis

I hope you expected something else from the Germans in 1939 too.

Half the employees are from NSO and they're all from the same unit.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#266

Post by davidf18 »

kennywinker wrote: post #251
ty6853 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethnic/religious persecution amongst other ethnic/religious groups being the origin of Jewish strife is literally the ideology written by Herzl in the groundwork that argued for Israel, noting incompatibility with living amongst other ethnic groups in Europe, and I would note somewhat accurately considering the Nazis (and others) indeed went on an ethnically aligned campaign to kill them all off. Unwittingly, you are…

> Unwittingly, you are arguing the foundation of Israel is Nazi ideology. You don’t say?? A state that can only exist as the result of ethnic cleansing? A state that is currently committing numerous acts of genocide? Huhhh.

Not true. Please don't tell falsehoods in HN. The US, EU, UK, and individual countries have all determined no genocide. Moreover, civilian deaths stop in Gaza the moment Hamas surrenders and returns the remaining hostages.

Remember, the tech revolution started in the US so have some respect for my country's opinion on the issue. Israel is a large supplier of tech including computer chip design.

The unfortunate truth is that the Palestinians in a fair election elected Hamas, a terrorist organization that seeks to destroy Israel.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#267

Post by thomassmith65 »

returningfory2 wrote: post #257
thomassmith65 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine: "Also by floating proposals that the Danish *state* and British *monarch* cede their stewardship of Greenland and Canada to the USA." Yes, one still can be tedius and argue that the Throne's veto over Canadian legislation doesn't qualify as 'stewardship' (since it is supposed to be symbolic) The point of my comment (which I maintain) is that Britain has strong ties with Canada, and so Trump butting in, pushing…

Canada the country, being a democracy, is owned by the Canadian people, not the king (just like the United States is owned by the American people, not the president). If Trump encroaches on the sovereignty of Canada it is an affront to the Canadian people. What the British think is of distinctly secondary importance. I'm not sure you see the irony of your stance. You're complaining about the American president buttin…

   If Trump encroaches on the sovereignty of Canada it is an affront to the Canadian people. What the British think is of distinctly secondary importance.
Yes, and that is consistent with my comment.

  You're complaining about the American president butting into Canadian affairs because it infringes on some supposed colonialist rights of an absentee king.
Well, if Canada has such weak ties to the UK, it might as well be part of America. Heck, just preserve public healthcare, and French language laws... why not?

Of course, that is not the case. There are still strong historical, legal, traditional, cultural, and familial ties.

This is why PM Carney invited Canada's king to Parliament last month. It was a reminder to Trump that his overtures were not simply an affront to Canada, but also to Britain.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#268

Post by dragonwriter »

edanm wrote: post #197
dragonwriter wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So when Israel does do what Palestinians supposedly want - completely remove all its citizens from the territory and hand it over to Palestinians to control They didn't actually do that; they continued to assert a set of layered security exclusion zones within Gaza where Gazans were forbidden to enter except under limited conditions, and continued to shoot unarmed civilians across the border within and beyond those…

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Israel kept a small buffer zone around the border, but other than that, I'm not sure what "layered security exclusion zones" you mean. And Israel didn't just randomly shoot at unarmed civilians, it shot at people approaching the border. Given that Gaza was controlled by a terrorist organization with a stated goal of carrying out attacks on Israel, and given what happened on Oct…

> I'm not sure what you're talking about. Israel kept a small buffer zone around the border, but other than that, I'm not sure what "layered security exclusion zones" you mean.

The buffer zone had different rules at different distances, and while you call it small it consisted of 17% of the land area of Gaza when Israel "completed" its "disengagement", and was later unilaterally expanded to 24% of the land area of Gaza.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#269

Post by somenameforme »

sim7c00 wrote: post #84
breppp wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, the fact that companies sell offensive cyber warfare software to governments is not new, and that specific company isn't either. There's also nothing inherently wrong with selling intelligence tools to a western government, Italy is not Iran or Zambia. And fighting terror or crime using software is valid. The only thing that surprises me is that a western government might attack journalists, and what I'd lik…

but friendly countries hacking friendies is also not new. so in your view then it should not be written at all? remember belgacom? western governments are also in the war of information and minds. if they wouldnt wage it, we'd already have lost. sadly, this results in this kind of weirdness. and its incredibly hard or impossible to find their true motives or intent. especially if for example an investigation didnt tu…

> western governments are also in the war of information and minds. if they wouldnt wage it, we'd already have lost.

Tangential, but this I strongly disagree with. The reason the US, and West more broadly, has been gradually, and now rapidly, losing this 'war' since the end of WW2 is precisely because we started waging it. And more generally the reason we started waging it is because we started behaving in an increasingly amoral fashion.

Consider that US had absolutely no intelligence agency whatsoever until 1942. And the CIA did not exist before 1947. Then within 15 years they're proposing engaging in terrorist acts against Americans on American soil so we can blame it on another country and get involved in a war. [1] And that proposal was only stopped by a President who would then shortly thereafter be assassinated by a "deluded gunman." [2] For context on that snippet if you're unaware, Bush Sr was the former head of the CIA.

From there it's shockingly just been a rapidly downhill slide. When you pretend to hold the moral high ground while acting fundamentally immoral, it leaves people far more jaded, and noncompliant, when they eventually 'wake up' to what's happening than if you just dropped the pretext and leveled with people.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

[2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOkTtpzoulc

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#270

Post by DSingularity »

whodidntante wrote: post #238
ty6853 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The origin of "the problem" is 1920/1924 when 1200 years of Islamic rule ended in that area, and non-muslims no longer lived under apartheid The missing piece here is that happened because of the European support and implementation of Jewish settlement. The zionists had actually initially considered Argentina, which had constitutional provisions that would have lended well to establishing a Jewish community there, p…

Interesting. I provided three facts and an opinion that 1200 years of rule created a mindset that would not allow for the independence of those considered "inferior". You also realize that this 1200 year rule was based on violent conquest, slavery, ethnic cleaning, genocide, and apartheid. Your response is all conjecture and assumptions. There is no reason that there could not have been peace with two states in 1947.…

Stop trying to revise history. The Jews in Palestine were living happily alongside the Muslims. Problems didn’t start until the European Jews arrived to implement Zionism.

The end of Ottoman Empire was decades before Zionist terrorists founded Israel (Lehi, Irgun, Haganah). These are facts.

Israel was founded on theft and by ethnically cleansing Palestine of its indigenous people through non-stop atrocities and terrorism. Literally most of Israel’s first prime-minister were terrorists. Even Jews like Einstein recognized this at the time and refused to be associated with the Zionist project.

Just admit it and then it becomes possible to find a solution that doesn’t require murdering tens of thousands of Palestinian children to ethnically cleanse Palestinians that won’t give up their right to return.

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