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US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

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Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#121

Post by slg »

cess11 wrote: post #99
slg wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they not teach about the Marshall Plan in schools anymore? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

It was a main driver of the initial Cold War and conditioned on policy, basically neutering european sovereignty and pushing Soviet in a similar direction to try and counter this effort. Political and economic dependency is a fallout that is still a problematic issue today, almost forty years after the fall of the USSR. The ongoing war in eastern Europe was pushed for by the US, more or less as a prolongation of the…

If you can't recognize the 60+ years of relative peace that efforts like the Marshall Plan brought us, I don't know how you can recognize any time period in recorded history as being "peaceful".

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#122

Post by [deleted] »

myth_drannon wrote: post #113
yosefk wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Didn't you know you also have space lasers? Anyone can be instantly vaporized at any point on Earth. A joke from 1930's Nazi Germany: "Two Jews are sitting on a bench in Nazi Germany. One of them is reading the local Yiddish newspaper. The other is reading Der Sturmer, a Nazi propaganda paper. The former says to the latter, “Why on earth would you read that antisemitic drek?” The other replies, “Well, when I read the…

[deleted]

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#123

Post by edanm »

myth_drannon wrote: post #108
hersko wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> -The bald eagle that is also the only country in history to have nuked two civilian cities. It was this or invade which would have easily resulted in more casualties. Pretending the US just nuked them when the other option was nothing is childish. > - Its best friend, the country that's commiting a genocide in 2025 and that you cannot criticize. Ongoing wars in 2025 and casualty numbers according to Grok: - Russia-…

Israel-Palestine war stats is really off, because the Palestinian officials also include natural deaths in those stats (8,000 per year in Gaza). So the total is more like 40,000-50,000, and most are combatants.

It's inaccurate to say "most" are combatants. The estimate is usually 2/3rds are civilians and 1/3rd are combatants.

Of course it's hard to get real answers on all these questions - Gaza's Hamas-run MoH is not exactly trustworthy, and don't publish a split of civilians vs combatants. And Israel, even assuming you do trust its numbers, doesn't publish estimates of Gazan civilians killed either.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#124

Post by edanm »

tehjoker wrote: post #119
myth_drannon wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel-Palestine war stats is really off, because the Palestinian officials also include natural deaths in those stats (8,000 per year in Gaza). So the total is more like 40,000-50,000, and most are combatants.

Genocidal comment. It is well known the stats are an undercount due to the genocidal starvation, disease, and deprivation, collapsing buildings on people that are never counted, and the many videos of e.g. Israelis burning children alive in tents. "True death toll from conflict in Gaza is 41% higher than reported, study estimates" https://www.bmj.com/content/388/bmj.r73

What makes the comment "genocidal" exactly?

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#125

Post by breppp »

bee_rider wrote: post #58
breppp wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, the fact that companies sell offensive cyber warfare software to governments is not new, and that specific company isn't either. There's also nothing inherently wrong with selling intelligence tools to a western government, Italy is not Iran or Zambia. And fighting terror or crime using software is valid. The only thing that surprises me is that a western government might attack journalists, and what I'd lik…

If it was for no good reason, would that update your “nothing inherently wrong with selling intelligence tools to a western government?” I do think western governments are generally better, but spying on journalists is bad.

not yet, although I am curious why this specific technology is linked to so many scandals involving journalists. Is it simply because that journalists are interested in stories about journalists and that what makes the news, or a power corrupts scenario.

I believe that similarly to phone tapping, this is a technology that in the wrong hands is dangerous, but it can be very effective against some threats that might make this worthwhile

Western democracies have worked for a century after the invention of phone tapping, and even a few decades after inventing a much more dangerous technology, of massive government or corporate surveillance networks.

Zero click exploit makes the news but it has no implication on most of the population, it's too expensive.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#126

Post by Xelbair »

edanm wrote: post #114
croes wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the time the country of the creator is named if it’s about spyware. The misuse of such tools outweighs the legitimate use cases, so people want to know who is so reckless to sell these programs

> The misuse of such tools outweighs the legitimate use cases, so people want to know who is so reckless to sell these programs Do you have any evidence of this? Cause my guess is the misuse is the stuff you hear about because it eventually makes the news. But the thousands or millions of legitimate use cases in which it prevented terror attacks or just, y'know, helped solved crimes, are just routine and don't get a…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

5eyes(spying agreement between US, UK, CAN, NZ, AU) utilizing a loophole to spy on each other's citizens.

Tons of cases with PEGASUS being used to target activists and journalists, usually ones investigating government corruption(EU, Mexico from top of my head).

You know what would also help solve crimes? if every action that everyone did was always observed and recorded. Would you be willing to live in such world? i would rather not.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#127

Post by Xelbair »

breppp wrote: post #49
croes wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the time the country of the creator is named if it’s about spyware. The misuse of such tools outweighs the legitimate use cases, so people want to know who is so reckless to sell these programs

I don't understand what's the difference if Italy develops its own or buys it from somewhere else. Comparably, phone tapping equipment is being sold world wide for almost a century and is used similarly The fact that some countries that gets these tools starts listening to journalists is concerning, but at least I want to believe it happens less in functioning countries But I don't see any issue with taking remote co…

>I don't understand what's the difference if Italy develops its own or buys it from somewhere else.

because the one who sold it quite likely also gets a hold of all information captured by it's user.

Check your other posts for examples of ongoing mass public surveillance programs.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#128

Post by _vere »

Stuff like this will just keep happening unless a major jurisdiction goes after these digital mercinaries. The fact that we ignore all laws for no reason other than "our agencies really like spying on people" is laughable. Literally crime as a service, sanctioned by most governments. Should not be surprising that such criminal organizations use their tools to spy on people who don't deserve it.

Re: US-backed Israeli company's spyware used to target European journalists

#129

Post by wesselbindt »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #91
westmeal wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of that was for freedoms though /s

At least there's a figleaf. The 20th Century could have been the German Century, or the Soviet Century. For all America's sins, most people did well living in the American Century.

Not the Kurds though. Or the Mayans. Or the Chileans. Or Cuba. Iran got screwed pretty hard. And Iraq too for that matter. Afghanistan. East Timor, and Indonesia too. Oof and the Palestinians really got the short end of the stick. Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos. But yeah I concede your point, the small minority of people living in the Imperial core did pretty ok.
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