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Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

latimes.com

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Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#151

Post by potato3732842 »

neaden wrote: post #132
Ajedi32 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal of cutting government spending is ultimately to reduce the amount of resources drained out of the economy through taxes/inflation. Balancing the budget is useful insofar as it reduces the resources that will need to be drained out of the economy in the future to pay interest on our growing debt (currently 11% of all Federal spending).

Tax money isn't drained out of the economy. The money used for NASA goes right back into the economy, since they use it to buy things. Even money to pay down debt isn't removed from the economy since the majority of that debt is held by US citizens who use that money to buy things.

>Tax money isn't drained out of the economy.

You're fractionally engaging in the broken windows fallacy.

Every time we pay for something that wouldn't have got done otherwise it comes at our expense.

That's not to say that some of these things aren't worth doing. But there are a whole great many things the feds spend money on that aren't worth doing.

If two dollars go to invading some stupid sandbox and one dollar goes to Nasa and the NASA dollar pays back a buck fiddy we're half a dollar poorer at the end of the day.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#152

Post by JKCalhoun »

Theodores wrote: post #92
davidw wrote: post #31

Well, yes, that's the point. Authoritarians want to consolidate power and loot wealth, not improve things or make the world a better place.

It is the art of the deal with Trump and I would say that he is a narcissist rather than authoritarian. Trump has a massive ego and I would have expected him to want the biggest rockets, and to pain them gold. If he did then I would denounce him for spending money on space when America has trillions of debt. I don't disagree with him on everything he says just because he said it. So, with space, my honest take is tha…

My sense is Trump simply doesn't see the benefit to him. A pretty simple lens to see the world through.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#153

Post by whatshisface »

deadbabe wrote: post #106
bryanlarsen wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The budget will shutdown many projects that have been running for decades. Those projects generally can't be restarted.

So we will see the end of James Webb telescope?

It's possible. It depends on how deep the cuts are and how much freedom scientists have in choosing. Scientists would prefer to save the major data collection projects, but the political side has stated a preference for manned exploration. What we know will be lost is all of the less politically armed but more useful small projects, including the ones that are used to study our home planet.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#154

Post by pixl97 »

whatshisface wrote: post #17
pixl97 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oligarchs first... much like Russia.

That was at first, then Putin started having them murdered. If you think about it, there isn't much of a reason for the individual that is allowed to have all the power to share it with anybody.

You do the hard work of getting the oligarchs to buy up and consolidate the private assets first. Then it's even easier to take those large asset bundles.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#155

Post by potato3732842 »

TimorousBestie wrote: post #127
potato3732842 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't actually be a big deal. Some states would win a little and some would lose a little but it wouldn't be life changing for anyone. The cents on the dollar in and out flows fluctuate a lot year to year. The bigger problem is that damn near every state bureaucracy has forgotten how to actually write and evaluate their own damn rules for all sorts of expenditures that are currently spec'd out on a "follow fed…

> The cents on the dollar in and out flows fluctuate a lot year to year. This doesn’t imply that the net flows average out to zero.

So what? No state is gonna to tits up because they're no longer getting $1.03 back for every dollar they send to daddy fed.

It'd be a giant nothingburger for the most part.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#156

Post by piva00 »

refurb wrote: post #139
davidw wrote: post #31

Well, yes, that's the point. Authoritarians want to consolidate power and loot wealth, not improve things or make the world a better place.

You're not supposed to take the Democratic talking points about Trump being a "wannabe dictator" seriously. It's just political mudslinging. I figured that was obvious after Trump and Obama were all buddy-buddy at Carter's funeral. I mean, typically you don't have a friendly relationship with someone you think is ending democracy in your country.

> You're not supposed to take the Democratic talking points about Trump being a "wannabe dictator" seriously. It's just political mudslinging.

I think you should go up this comment thread and read this[0], it's not the words of Trump but the actions his administration take, they are authoritarian, it's clear to most people outside of the USA with a decent education.

Cynicism about "political mudslinging" as if these actions are all normal and could be taken by any administration, and would be condemned anyway by their opposing side is exactly the shift in Overton Window which legitimises authoritarian overtakes.

Please do read about any authoritarian rise to power in democratic countries in the last 100 years, even better if you read about "competitive authoritarianism" to understand why it might just so be this time is a little different...

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44259953

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#157

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

refurb wrote: post #139
davidw wrote: post #31

Well, yes, that's the point. Authoritarians want to consolidate power and loot wealth, not improve things or make the world a better place.

You're not supposed to take the Democratic talking points about Trump being a "wannabe dictator" seriously. It's just political mudslinging. I figured that was obvious after Trump and Obama were all buddy-buddy at Carter's funeral. I mean, typically you don't have a friendly relationship with someone you think is ending democracy in your country.

Hitler was buddy buddy with all kinds of people (including most wealthy Jews before the concentration camps).

What's your point?

You're defacto not a wannabe dictator because you did anything ever that wasn't dictator-y?

That seems like a low bar.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#158

Post by GuestFAUniverse »

HPsquared wrote: post #59
tomalaci wrote: post #10

These kind of policies and that amortization tax law for software development will probably encourage quite some exodus of talent. Would it be to Europe or South East Asia, though?

USA pays engineers like 3x as much as those places. It's still global brain drain destination #1.

And what do you buy with your "triple" income?

A boring mansion, with a boring lawn, in a boring, gated community? -- and all that while the other neighbourhoods are on fire. But at least you can buy $700 sneakers and leave the big garage in style, to work your ass off with a job pretending to "better the world" -- maybe have one or two weeks to fill your social media account with pictures already taken by the millions (you might as well use generative AI).

Congrats to your final destination: hell.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#159

Post by Jtsummers »

blindriver wrote: post #109

[flagged]

To balance the budget we need to raise taxes (or stop lowering them), reduce the DOD budget (as it is hitting $1 trillion), and cut spending in Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security (all three are political third rails).

The rest of the budget almost doesn't matter.

https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/feder...

As a hypothetical, if we'd cut everything that isn't in the Social Security, Medicare, Defense, Interest, and Health categories we'd still have $169 billion in deficits. Odds are VA benefits will not be cut any time soon, so if that's preserved we still have $429 billion in deficits.

And we'll never actually cut all of these spending categories. This leaves us having to touch the untouchable and/or raising taxes to balance the budget and get the debt under control.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#160

Post by siliconc0w »

It makes sense that NASA should abandon the SLS and focus on where there isn't already heavy private investment, space launch already has like 8-10 companies competing. Artemis should be refactored to be much cheaper and launch via private companies.
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