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Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

latimes.com

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Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#41

Post by cosmic_cheese »

palmfacehn wrote: post #15

Wherever budget cuts are proposed, you can rely upon detractors to present the issue in apocalyptic terms. If we believed all of these claims, then it would be impossible to cut the scope of government spending. Furthermore, if we accepted the premise promoted by some commenters here, then research, which is presented as incredibly valuable - would be unable to be funded or valued in the private market. For these rea…

The sticking point for me is that it’s such a risky bet to assume that something else will fill the gap.

Much of the research impacted by cuts is not the type that private industry has typically conducted because it can’t be performed with a specific profitable result in mind. It’s the kind of research that had wound up beneficial in the long run indirectly due to incidental discoveries and unexpected connections.

So there’s a decent chance that this kind of research largely just won’t happen any more, which is a net negative for everybody. Numerous advancements will either never happen or instead occur at the hand of other developed countries’ research apparatuses.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#42

Post by goodluckchuck »

hackyhacky wrote: post #21
msgodel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Please explain how cutting science and medical research helps the country. While you're at it, I'm also curious how you think cutting profitable departments (such as CPFB) or white-collar law enforcement helps anyone other than the president's friends.

Public research is just government subsidies to corporations, which acquire IP for pennies on the dollar for their own profits while leaving taxpayers with the chaff. It’s a net loss for the public good who has to pay twice.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#43

Post by alistairSH »

palmfacehn wrote: post #20
nemomarx wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who said he's not cutting enough?

For a starting premise, we might define "enough" as a balanced budget.

We could cut 100% of discretionary spending and might just balance the budget.

If you really want a balanced budget, you need to figure out how to slow the growth of mandatory spending and increase revenue. Neither of which Trump or the GOP seem interested in doing.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#44

Post by supplied_demand »

palmfacehn wrote: post #15

Wherever budget cuts are proposed, you can rely upon detractors to present the issue in apocalyptic terms. If we believed all of these claims, then it would be impossible to cut the scope of government spending. Furthermore, if we accepted the premise promoted by some commenters here, then research, which is presented as incredibly valuable - would be unable to be funded or valued in the private market. For these rea…

== If we believed all of these claims, then it would be impossible to cut the scope of government spending==

What is the goal of cutting government spending? Most would say it is to balance the Federal budget. The controlling party is planning to do the opposite, so the argument kind of falls apart.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#45

Post by scottLobster »

palmfacehn wrote: post #15

Wherever budget cuts are proposed, you can rely upon detractors to present the issue in apocalyptic terms. If we believed all of these claims, then it would be impossible to cut the scope of government spending. Furthermore, if we accepted the premise promoted by some commenters here, then research, which is presented as incredibly valuable - would be unable to be funded or valued in the private market. For these rea…

The fact that you think scientific research, and NASA specifically, are driving our budgetary shortfalls shows your own bias.

You don't cut government budgets because it's intrinsically righteous, you do it to save money that you can then spend on other things. You could cut the NASA budget to zero and it wouldn't get us out of our current fiscal hole.

And it is incontrovertible from any reading of the history that government support is the reason we have modern air travel, the internet, and GPS, among many other facets of modern life. There is no compelling argument I've heard that the private sector can or would develop such things on their own, unless you're arguing that we should be completely reliant on the occasional eccentric billionaire having an interest in something scientific and setting up a foundation.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#47

Post by alistairSH »

hackyhacky wrote: post #25
palmfacehn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a starting premise, we might define "enough" as a balanced budget.

If a balanced budget is your goal, only two steps are required: reduce military spending, increase taxes. No need to cut research. In practice the current budget bill is wildly unbalanced and will vastly extend our debt, despite extensive cuts to important programs.

We could zero out the military budget and that still doesn't get us anywhere close to balanced. Even cutting 100% of discretionary spending barely does the job.

We either need massive cuts in mandatory spending (fundamental changes to social contract) or increased revenue (politically not viable).

There's also near zero evidence we actually need a balanced budget for a healthy economy.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#48

Post by hackyhacky »

khalic wrote: post #35
palmfacehn wrote: post #15

Wherever budget cuts are proposed, you can rely upon detractors to present the issue in apocalyptic terms. If we believed all of these claims, then it would be impossible to cut the scope of government spending. Furthermore, if we accepted the premise promoted by some commenters here, then research, which is presented as incredibly valuable - would be unable to be funded or valued in the private market. For these rea…

What’s divorced from reality is your ignorance about these projects and how tight their budget already is. You’re rejecting arguments because of ideology, how convenient.

> You’re rejecting arguments because of ideology, how convenient.

You're being generous. The current administration has no ideology. The cuts are due to partisanship, and they have selected all of science as their political enemies.

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#49

Post by alistairSH »

fzeroracer wrote: post #19
msgodel wrote: post #8

[flagged]

Weird how all of these budget cuts never actually have any real effect on the national debt. Almost like every time we cut something we end up replacing it with handouts to rich corporations and oligarchs in the form of lower taxes, tax breaks or just plain corruption.

Google up "federal budget pie chart" and look at some of the budget analysis. Most of our spending is mandatory spending. We could cut ALL discretionary spending and that might just barely balance the budget.

We have two options (if you take a balanced budget as a worthy goal, which is debatable)... 1 - rebuild the social contract from the ground up, with massively reduced mandatory spending

2 - increase revenue

Re: Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wipe out its future

#50

Post by lesuorac »

fzeroracer wrote: post #19
msgodel wrote: post #8

[flagged]

Weird how all of these budget cuts never actually have any real effect on the national debt. Almost like every time we cut something we end up replacing it with handouts to rich corporations and oligarchs in the form of lower taxes, tax breaks or just plain corruption.

Weird how a few presidents get balanced budgets and the next ones all cut taxes and somehow we wonder what we need to do to get a balanced budget.
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