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Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

theguardian.com

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Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#161

Post by Mindwipe »

ikekkdcjkfke wrote: post #146
SecretDreams wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's footage after takeoff of it descending with the air ram deployed, no engine power, gears down, and flaps up. TBD on the cause, but loss of engines for some reason seems to be the case. I do agree that a lot of info comes out first week that isn't all right. I'm just reciting what's been shown in videos.

Well, loss of engine power and gliding to a stop is not that a far fetched case. Why is there not a fuel dump button to prevent a whole trips worth of fuel going up in flames?

They were only 600ft in the air, barely anything would have got out before they hit the ground and you'd have just set non-zero amount of innocent people on fire in all likelihood when the crash ignited the trail they'd left.

There is a dump fuel button if you're not in the middle of a populated city and you're far enough in the sky you've got a few minutes.

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#162

Post by Ylpertnodi »

quantumfissure wrote: post #114
DanielleMolloy wrote: post #79

This is the 4th within less than a year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deadliest_aircraft_acc...

And there were 7 in one year during 2018 and 2019. Looking through the chart you linked, averages around 3 per year. Considering how many planes are currently in the sky at this very moment, this is a wildly useless statistic used to cause fear and panic.

Post-covid, aren't there considerably fewer planes in the skies? When i look up, the skies seem remarkably empty, compared to previously.

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#163

Post by pncnmnp »

brunohaid wrote: post #28

Baffling tragedy, again. Clear skies, no LiveATC but reports of single Mayday call, gear out but no flaps and no control inputs visible in the grainy video. Something has to go really catastrophically wrong with a modern jetliner for that to happen, like the very dense flock of birds in Korea with the 737 a couple of months back. The very short intersection takeoff seems like a good hint (and terrible practice), but…

Regarding the intersection takeoff, Flightradar24 just tweeted this:

> We are continuing to process data from receiver sources individually. Additional processing confirms #AI171 departed using the full length of Runway 23 at Ahmedabad. RWY 23 is 11,499 feet long. The aircraft backtracked to the end of the runway before beginning its take off roll.

https://x.com/flightradar24/status/1933138841214611760

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#164

Post by iamtheworstdev »

ikekkdcjkfke wrote: post #146
SecretDreams wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's footage after takeoff of it descending with the air ram deployed, no engine power, gears down, and flaps up. TBD on the cause, but loss of engines for some reason seems to be the case. I do agree that a lot of info comes out first week that isn't all right. I'm just reciting what's been shown in videos.

Well, loss of engine power and gliding to a stop is not that a far fetched case. Why is there not a fuel dump button to prevent a whole trips worth of fuel going up in flames?

because painting an entire neighborhood in flammable fluid isn't safe... if it doesn't catch fire it'll corrode everything it touches.

most planes can't dump fuel anymore. if it's a serious enough emergency you land overweight. If it's not then you fly long enough to burn it off and land below max landing weight.

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#165

Post by klausa »

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #137
aipatselarom wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy's just asking if four engines instead of two would have made a difference? It's curiosity, it's learning, it's looking for an explanation. That's exactly the kind of comment that deserves to be here. >[...] who doesn't have any relevant expertise, Is that a requirement to comment on this thread? Do you fulfill that requirement you brought in?

That is entirely where I'm coming from - plane designs from the past had longer wingspans and supported 4 engines. Engines have gotten more efficient and powerful so cross-ocean routes don't need 4 engines anymore. So I was wondering what if current plane designs had 4 smaller but equally as efficient engines instead of 2. The vast majority of airplane accidents happen at takeoff or landings, if some of those can be…

I am happy to acknowledge I had a completely wrong knee-jerk reaction to your phrasing, and incorrectly assumed your "One has to wonder..." was meant as a suggestion of a solution, instead of instance of thinking out loud!

Apologies!

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#166

Post by navigate8310 »

snickerbockers wrote: post #93
m4tthumphrey wrote: post #2

Seems like they lost power? https://x.com/georgiameloniii/status/1933091545248641248

jesus, that's terrifying. The pilot has control of the plane all the way down but nowhere to even attempt a landing. All he can do is raise the flaps, deploy the landing gear and hope for the best. Although TBH it also seems like a failure of city planning, aren't most major airports outside of the limits of the city they're associated with because of stuff like this? I know most of them don't have anywhere safe to a…

This is India we are talking about. The population density and surrounding encroachment is usually why even small domestic cylinder blast could take lives of 100s.

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#167

Post by account42 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25

Gentle tip from a lifelong aviation enthusiast: wait one week before reading on causation. Exposing yourself to first-week speculation isn’t just unproductive, it’s often counterproductive since the actual findings can rhyme with the false speculation closely enough that you wind up muddling the two in your mind.

Gentle tip from a lifelong speculation enthusiast: if speculating now is fun for you don't let party poopers stop you.

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#168

Post by mdavidn »

ikekkdcjkfke wrote: post #146
SecretDreams wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's footage after takeoff of it descending with the air ram deployed, no engine power, gears down, and flaps up. TBD on the cause, but loss of engines for some reason seems to be the case. I do agree that a lot of info comes out first week that isn't all right. I'm just reciting what's been shown in videos.

Well, loss of engine power and gliding to a stop is not that a far fetched case. Why is there not a fuel dump button to prevent a whole trips worth of fuel going up in flames?

There is, but dumping takes time, and it’s not done over populated areas. It would be low on the pilots’ checklist in an emergency.

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#169

Post by ekianjo »

ikekkdcjkfke wrote: post #146
SecretDreams wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's footage after takeoff of it descending with the air ram deployed, no engine power, gears down, and flaps up. TBD on the cause, but loss of engines for some reason seems to be the case. I do agree that a lot of info comes out first week that isn't all right. I'm just reciting what's been shown in videos.

Well, loss of engine power and gliding to a stop is not that a far fetched case. Why is there not a fuel dump button to prevent a whole trips worth of fuel going up in flames?

It's possible to dump fuel but you don't have time to dump enough in an emergency

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#170

Post by DanielleMolloy »

quantumfissure wrote: post #114
DanielleMolloy wrote: post #79

This is the 4th within less than a year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deadliest_aircraft_acc...

And there were 7 in one year during 2018 and 2019. Looking through the chart you linked, averages around 3 per year. Considering how many planes are currently in the sky at this very moment, this is a wildly useless statistic used to cause fear and panic.

> Looking through the chart you linked, averages around 3 per year. > this is a wildly useless statistic used to cause fear and panic.

I can read too. I added a comment with a number. You don't know my intent, this is your interpretation.

Besides, 2018/19 was a steep outlier with the 737 MAX crashes. This is why these got widespread attention and have been discussed down to the last detail for years.

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