Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 633 posts

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#101

Post by FridayoLeary »

bartread wrote: post #73
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25

Gentle tip from a lifelong aviation enthusiast: wait one week before reading on causation. Exposing yourself to first-week speculation isn’t just unproductive, it’s often counterproductive since the actual findings can rhyme with the false speculation closely enough that you wind up muddling the two in your mind.

Yeah, I think I might wait for the MentourPilot take on this one. I can't see any benefit in speculating. Horrifying that it came down in a residential area with almost all its fuel still on board though. The aftermath is beyond belief.

Yes. Unfortunately this year alone will give him quite a backlog. Every month there's been a couple of disasters or near disasters and there's no apparent connection between any of them.

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#102

Post by blitzar »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25

Gentle tip from a lifelong aviation enthusiast: wait one week before reading on causation. Exposing yourself to first-week speculation isn’t just unproductive, it’s often counterproductive since the actual findings can rhyme with the false speculation closely enough that you wind up muddling the two in your mind.

Pro tip from a lifelong life enthusiast: if its breaking news, wait one week - first-week speculation isn’t just unproductive, it’s often counterproductive.

Flick through last weeks newspaper if you need reassurance.

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#103

Post by Waterluvian »

Ichthypresbyter wrote: post #69
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just watching something the other day about how jet engines have gotten more efficient and powerful over the last 50 years where commercial airliners really only need 2 engines. All 2 engine aircraft also have to be able to operate on 1 engine as well if there is a failure. One has to wonder if this was a bird strike incident on both engines that maybe having 4 engines would have allowed the plane to circle bac…

Why would a flock of birds large enough to be ingested by both engines of a two-engined plane not also be large enough to be ingested by all four engines of a four-engined plane?

Good point. We should be discussing eight-engine planes.

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#104

Post by moralestapia »

Ichthypresbyter wrote: post #69
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just watching something the other day about how jet engines have gotten more efficient and powerful over the last 50 years where commercial airliners really only need 2 engines. All 2 engine aircraft also have to be able to operate on 1 engine as well if there is a failure. One has to wonder if this was a bird strike incident on both engines that maybe having 4 engines would have allowed the plane to circle bac…

Why would a flock of birds large enough to be ingested by both engines of a two-engined plane not also be large enough to be ingested by all four engines of a four-engined plane?

>Why don’t all four tires on a car blow out at the same time?

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#105

Post by AaronM »

defrost wrote: post #71
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just watching something the other day about how jet engines have gotten more efficient and powerful over the last 50 years where commercial airliners really only need 2 engines. All 2 engine aircraft also have to be able to operate on 1 engine as well if there is a failure. One has to wonder if this was a bird strike incident on both engines that maybe having 4 engines would have allowed the plane to circle bac…

A multiple engine aircraft maintaining flight on a single engine is vastly different to the same craft being able to complete a take off when an engine fails mid process. Aircraft can land (in right circumstances) by gliding in sans power .. the same cannot be said for take offs.

Modern commercial aircraft is designed to operate on a single engine through all modes of flight.

One a plane reaches v1 during takeoff, it can lose an engine and still takeoff.

It an engine was lost before v1, the takeoff would be aborted.

Here is an Airbus doing just that.

https://youtu.be/5QMJ3_NiWbs?si=5nZ4yU7T7hsGSUu2

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#106

Post by brunohaid »

bravesoul2 wrote: post #89
Arch-TK wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An intersection takeoff is a takeoff where you do not use the full length of the runway. When you are a large aeroplane with a full load, reaching the necessary takeoff speeds required to rotate (pull up and begin lifting from the ground) can take longer than normal, at which point the climb speed will also be reduced if not properly compensated for (e.g. you miscalculate something and set the wrong elevator trim/tak…

Why is it a thing? Everything else in aviation seems to have good amounts of checks, balances and buffers. It feels the same to me as skimping a couple percent on fuel or doing less frequent maintenance. Both also reduce turnaround time.

Good question. False sense of routine, experience? Definitely a pet peeve.

Was flying as a passenger on a really small airline (8 seater plane, Green Air) out of San Jose in Costa Rica. We got cleared for takeoff ahead of a United 737, at most 500 feet into the humongous runway for that plane. Yet the pilots still put in the 2 minute effort to taxi back to the beginning of the runway, even though they could have easily taken off from where we entered it. Don’t know if it was their protocol or the pilots decision, but I will trust this airline for a very long time.

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#108

Post by bartread »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #101
bartread wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think I might wait for the MentourPilot take on this one. I can't see any benefit in speculating. Horrifying that it came down in a residential area with almost all its fuel still on board though. The aftermath is beyond belief.

Yes. Unfortunately this year alone will give him quite a backlog. Every month there's been a couple of disasters or near disasters and there's no apparent connection between any of them.

I haven't by any means been keeping count but it does feel like there have been a lot more incidents that usual this year, and certainly a lot more fatalities.

What I can't work out whether that's recency bias, or because I've been watching a lot of MentourPilot with our daughters so I'm simply more attuned to this kind of news, or if there really are more of them.

I certainly don't know if the rate of incidents per passenger mile flown is higher than usual.

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#109

Post by klausa »

moralestapia wrote: post #99
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just watching something the other day about how jet engines have gotten more efficient and powerful over the last 50 years where commercial airliners really only need 2 engines. All 2 engine aircraft also have to be able to operate on 1 engine as well if there is a failure. One has to wonder if this was a bird strike incident on both engines that maybe having 4 engines would have allowed the plane to circle bac…

Your comment does not deserve to be downvoted, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

It's baseless speculation by someone who doesn't have any relevant expertise, based purely on conjecture not any facts around the accident.

It's _exactly_ the kind of comment that deserves to be downvoted here.

Re: Air India flight to London crashes in Ahmedabad with more than 240 onboard

#110

Post by SecretDreams »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25

Gentle tip from a lifelong aviation enthusiast: wait one week before reading on causation. Exposing yourself to first-week speculation isn’t just unproductive, it’s often counterproductive since the actual findings can rhyme with the false speculation closely enough that you wind up muddling the two in your mind.

There's footage after takeoff of it descending with the air ram deployed, no engine power, gears down, and flaps up.

TBD on the cause, but loss of engines for some reason seems to be the case.

I do agree that a lot of info comes out first week that isn't all right. I'm just reciting what's been shown in videos.

Post reply on HN