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AOSP project is coming to an end

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Re: AOSP project is coming to an end

#61

Post by jampekka »

safety1st wrote: post #55
transpute wrote: post #13

Hopefully AOSP Pixel device support is merely delayed, not ended, since Pixel is the only way to get Debian Linux ("Terminal") VM + desktop mode support, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43973395 . With Apple's ongoing refusal to enable VM/JIT support on iOS and iPad, Google Pixel + GrapheneOS + Debian is a very competitive 2025 offering.

Wait what? This is a screenshot of 9 short lines of text from the Reddit image server. What is actually going on? Android source is still Apache licensed right? How are these things becoming closed source? What is happening?

Apache is not copyleft so new versions can become closed source.

Re: AOSP project is coming to an end

#62

Post by jaoane »

Teever wrote: post #60
misnome wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve decades of examples of simple toggles not working. Bad actors will just explain to the target the necessity of switching it on.

But we have another example to look at. Why isn't this a big problem on Apple laptops?

Laptops have always been able to virtualise, the same they can download stuff off the internet without going through the App Store. Changing that wouldn’t fly.

Re: AOSP project is coming to an end

#63

Post by charcircuit »

jampekka wrote: post #61
safety1st wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait what? This is a screenshot of 9 short lines of text from the Reddit image server. What is actually going on? Android source is still Apache licensed right? How are these things becoming closed source? What is happening?

Apache is not copyleft so new versions can become closed source.

The copyright holder can change the license for new versions. Copyleft does not matter.

Re: AOSP project is coming to an end

#64

Post by transpute »

abandonliberty wrote: post #40
terhechte wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my biggest iPad gripe. I understand the security, but just make it a new "entitlement" that is only given to UTM, Parallels and VMWare fusion. Or make it a "developer mode" that you can only enable if you pay $99 a year. I'd be fine with that, but the whole iPad is unusable for any kind of software development and I'd love to be able to travel with just an iPad because for everything else I do while I'm trave…

Apple wants you to buy both... $100/year may make it worth it for them.

Apple customers have bought both, even multiples of each, would be willing to pay a hefty premium (e.g. bundle hypervisor entitlement with iPad Pros that have more memory) -- but Apple continues to refuse.

With the recent court ruling that enables non-Apple payment channels, blocking VMs does not protect revenue, but it does hurt Apple customers who want iPads for a quick portable terminal, while using their Macs for extended work sessions.

Re: AOSP project is coming to an end

#65

Post by morjom »

vbezhenar wrote: post #58
pzo wrote: post #7

sad, was thinking to switch from iPhone to pixel 10 in few months once released exactly for the reason that is clean android and gives and escape hatch to use grapheneOS or lineageOS or calysOS. Any other android phone manufacturer that is supported by any of those projects? Most devices supported except pixel devices are few years old.

I tried to switch from iPhone to Pixel and switched back. Modern Pixel is absolutely not clean android. It's a mess of misfeatures. There's no clean android. iPhone is lean and compact compared to Android. GrapheneOS is solid, but built by security freaks, so unless you're a fan of OpenBSD, it makes little sense to use it. And any custom ROM locks you out of many important apps, like banks apps, NFC payments, etc (un…

"Security freaks"

"OpenBSD"

"Locks you out of many important apps ... (Unless you want to combat integrity system)"

When did you try to switch?

Re: AOSP project is coming to an end

#66

Post by transpute »

jampekka wrote: post #57
misnome wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve decades of examples of simple toggles not working. Bad actors will just explain to the target the necessity of switching it on.

Put it in the bootloader then. The pretence that Apple makes these things for security reasons and there's absolutely no way in the world to make it possible is a bit ridiculous.

Apple shipped hypervisor support back in iOS 16, then removed it!

https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2024/07/25/0900

Re: AOSP project is coming to an end

#67

Post by transpute »

raffael_de wrote: post #56
transpute wrote: post #13

Hopefully AOSP Pixel device support is merely delayed, not ended, since Pixel is the only way to get Debian Linux ("Terminal") VM + desktop mode support, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43973395 . With Apple's ongoing refusal to enable VM/JIT support on iOS and iPad, Google Pixel + GrapheneOS + Debian is a very competitive 2025 offering.

After years of being stuck with iPhones I'm also eager to soon switch back to Android. iOS always just felt like a polished compromise. Have been a happy customer of LOS using OnePlus devices. But LOS always also seemed a little opaque and casual. Hence I set my eyes on GrapheneOS and in consequence on a device from the Pixel lineup.

In an alternate universe, trade war and rare earth minerals shortage halts manufacturing of new iPhones, operating system updates become paid products and existing iPhones must implement the secure launch protocol that Asahi Linux uses on Apple Silicon, enabling AOSP for iPhones.

https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2025/06/03/2155

> Apple has dropped the ball so badly that Sky is like a perfect storm of what they could have done, but didn’t. And now, not only is it a third-party app that is doing what Apple should have done, but it is also doing it in a better way that anything they ever shipped.

Re: AOSP project is coming to an end

#68

Post by xbmcuser »

VoidWhisperer wrote: post #27
xbmcuser wrote: post #14

Could be they don't want devices to have latest Android before their own latest flagship devices are released. They might release the AOSP in Aug when the new Pixel hardware drops.

When you say that they dont want the latest android before their own flagship devices are released, do you mean people running AOSP before the new pixel releases with it or other phone manufacturers/carriers beating them to releasing it? If the second one, that seems a bit unlikely. Atleast here, I don't think I've seen a carrier that delivers an updated android without taking a long time first - iirc this was part o…

I mean xda etc making AOSP roms before Google releases its new hardware

Re: AOSP project is coming to an end

#69

Post by overfeed »

Aachen wrote: post #39
charcircuit wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at how it works for Wear OS. Qualcomm still only hosts the repos for the BSP and not the whole OS. It's expected to still get those from Google, from the partner portal.

> (BSP) is the layer of software containing hardware-specific boot loaders, device drivers, in sometimes operating system kernels, and other routines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Board_support_package presumably. Never heard that TLA in my life and it's not like I've not gotten my hands dirty in Android

You wouldn't need to touch BSPs or drivers unless you're doing bringup or updating the Android kernel for a supported device. The common approach to avoid a lot of pain whn updating Android is to simply stay on the old kernel supported by the OEM or partner.

Re: AOSP project is coming to an end

#70

Post by znpy »

misnome wrote: post #48
fc417fc802 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was really about security (in the sense of that which benefits the end user) they'd just stick it behind a toggle and be done with it. I just think it's important to call out the misalignment - security can refer to the interests of the end user, or alternatively to the vendor. The ambiguity is convenient for PR statements.

We’ve decades of examples of simple toggles not working. Bad actors will just explain to the target the necessity of switching it on.

You can load your own root CA on iOS devices (i did it to enable certificates issued by my own private CA). That bypasses a LOT of security issues, and yet it’s still feasible.
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