Earlier quoted context omitted.
This needs to be escalated. Who is your manager?
You are Number 6.
Be seeing you
Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole
461–470 of 647 posts
Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole
#462I think it's neat that this summary is written by an author of the scientific manuscript. Oversimplification is a risk, but this approach eliminates the possibility that the writer did not understand the underlying science.
Yeah, wow. That was great. His solution seems so simple and clears all the previous model's problems. I guess every black hole could contain its own universe.
Ironically that was basically the first thought many had when it was clear we cannot explain what happens in the edge case of a singularity. It was always "perhaps another unsiverse or a way into a parallel one".
It still leaves a lot of questions though, especially if you try to marry quantum mechanics to these makroscopic models. Where did the initial black hole come from and should a corresponsing anti matter black hole exist?
Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole
#463Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you agree with the above comment, doesn't that make you an atheist, not agnostic?
I used to think that I was an atheist, but I realized nothing can be proven presently in any way even if I have opinions, so I decided I have to be agnostic. So e.g. I have hunches that there's no way there is a God that's in any way as religions might think it is, and I do have a hunch that we somehow happened from probably deterministic chain reactions, but it's a hunch, it's hard to call it a belief, or it's hard…
> I used to think that I was an atheist, but I realized nothing can be proven presently in any way even if I have opinions, so I decided I have to be agnostic.
As an atheist myself, I find your type of agnosticism to be overly generous to the religious theories. Do you also think that Russell's Teapot might exist or do you have a limit of unlikeliness that you draw the line at?
Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole
#464Earlier quoted context omitted.
> When you cross a black hole's event horizon, the radial coordinate becomes timelike, so you lose one degree of spatial freedom. The second half is incorrect. Since the time coordinate becomes spacelike in turn you'll still have 3 spatial degrees of freedom. Dimensions can't just vanish if you believe that spacetime is a 4D Lorentzian manifold (as physicists do). Moreover, the singularity is not a place you can poke…
> The second half is incorrect. Since the time coordinate becomes spacelike in turn you'll still have 3 spatial degrees of freedom. Dimensions can't just vanish if you believe that spacetime is a 4D Lorentzian manifold (as physicists do). Can we say that one of the spatial dimensions (the radial dimension) and the time dimension combine into a single dimension? After crossing the event horizon aren't they 1:1 correla…
No, there's no change in dimensionality.
The swapping of timelike and radial dimensions are a "game" frequently played with families of coordinates, including Schwarzschild coordinates. One can apply any system of coordinates on a physical system without changing the behaviour of the physical system: coordinates are unphysical. Think of navigating around in a neighbourhood: you can talk about going forward a few blocks then turning left, after which you go forward two more blocks; or for the same journey, going "city north" a few blocks then going "city west" two blocks. Here assuming that (initially) "forward" is in the "city north" direction (and "city north" is not necessarily exactly magnetic north nor a section of a meridian of longitude). After the left turn, "forward" is "city west". There's an analogue to the discussion's (ab)use of Schwarzschild coordinates.
In Schwarzschild spacetime, without applying any system of coordinates, just floating in free-fall far from a black hole extremizes your travel in the timelike dimension. (You can do this at home: you stay put at some point on Earth (whether you use GPS latitude/longitude/altitude or some other system of coordinates) but your wristwatch keeps ticking). Inside the black hole horizon, just floating in free-fall extremizes your travel in the direction of the singularity. Far from the black hole, accelerating as strongly as you can in any direction takes travel from the timelike dimension and puts it into one or more spatial dimensions. In particular, you have the freedom to increase the spacetime interval between you and the singularity. Within the horizon, however strongly you accelerate the spacetime interval between you and the singularity shrinks. This behaviour seems to invite the use a different set of coordinates applied to a patch of space around an observer far from the black hole and a patch of space around an observer inside the horizon. It's some human cognition thing, and in the early 20th century it took decades to discover systems of coordinates that work for observers far from the black hole, at the horizon, and inside the horizon. And even today, most people don't seem to try to enhance physical intuitions by swapping among arbitrary systems of coordinates (including no coordinates) on a single physical system like a black hole and a pair of observers (one inside the horizon and one far outside the black hole).
The Schwarzschild black hole interior is still locally Lorentz-invariant everywhere (because the whole Schwarzschild spacetime is a Lorentzian manifold).
The various local interactions of the Standard Model will keep working inside a black hole. In a really tiny patch around every point, everything behaves as if its in Minkowski space (flat 4-d (3 spatial + 1 time) spacetime).
(That's one of the problems of quantum field theory on curved spacetime: the "focusing-pressure" [for experts: this is encoded in the Weyl curvature tensor; my "scare quotes" take a view of this in a Raychaudhuri equation way] gets so high that the unknown ultraviolet behaviour of the Standard Model (a quantum field theory) becomes relevant. The Weyl behaviour in Schwarzschild is that quasispherical objects are strongly prolated with the long axis aligned radially: a soccer ball or basketball starts looking like an American or Canadian or Rugby football ball. The radial stretching "spaghettifies" by ripping apart weaker bonds (like intermolecular ones, and molecular ones, and ionizing atoms), but the tangential squashing ("focusing") must eventually generate more nuclear interactions, probably up to quantum chromodynamics (QCD) energies possibly before the radial stretching starts generating hadronization.
How this works in the Standard Model is just unknown. However simpler "test" quantum field theories (fewer, or even no, interactions; and often no colour-confinement-like processes) raise really difficult questions.
Finally, back to the Standard Model as local theory: how does any allegedly quantum nonlocality behaviour work? Local here in the sence that states can be distinguished by local measurements alone. Related questions: can you entangle particles deep inside a black hole? If an entangled pair fall in together, how does the entanglement evolve? Or obsessing black hole information people, what if you throw in only one half of an entangled pair and locally measure the outside half? Nobody has great answers for these sorts of questions at present, and there's no near-term hope of testing any proposals in laboratories or via astrophysical observation.
Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole
#465Interesting read, but even if we assume the author is correct, and the cosmos formed as a black hole in a larger universe, the question remains, how did this larger universe formed, then? Might just be impossible to know.
My theory: There's no such thing as before and after “it”. It is it.
What about "bit"? Doesn't that come before "it", Mr Wheeler? :)
Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole
#466A few years ago a popular idea was that our universe existed as an hologram on the surface of a black hole. Recently I saw also a theory that black hole might not, in fact, exist as we thought, and may be instead something called 'gravastars', where large stars do not collapse in an infinite point but instead the mass reaches a maximum density and hardness and become sorts of empty bubbles. Now this. It's not exactly…
It makes sense to me... I think. And I like this vision as well. It would explain the big bang (initial black hole formation), why the universe is expending (at probably non constant rates over time) which would be the black hole "ingesting" matter and growing and maybe also why time and space are one.
Same as you, a take from complete uneducated pop-sci fueled imagination.
Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole
#467Earlier quoted context omitted.
I thought you were supposed to get spaghettified and die instantly ?
At the event horizon of a large enough black hole, the tidal difference in gravity between your toes and head shouldn't be noticeable. There shouldn't actually be anything special about falling through the event horizon when looking at yourself. Outside though, you'd see everything start to blue-shift. Things below you would blue shift back to normal, and the universe above you would blue-shift and speed up until you…
> There shouldn't actually be anything special about falling through the event horizon when looking at yourself.
If you went in feet-first, you'd perhaps find it quite odd that your feet never seemed to cross the horizon, as they would have red-shifted so dramatically.
> you wouldn't notice anything weird.
Maybe you wouldn't notice that you never saw your feet cross, since you wouldn't have much time to ponder it before your head crossed as well, but at that point, you surely you would notice that everything below you is black, since all light (and everything else) is now destined for the singularity. That's the very definition of the event horizon. There wouldn't be any reflected light.
Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole
#468Not many people these days like to hear this (I myself was one of them), but the answer to this is in Genesis. There's a reason some of the most famous mathematicians, scientists, engineers, and philosophers of all time believe(d) in God. The Hebrew name of God, YHWH, literally means "He Who Is." In other words, the Self-Existent One. The father and originator of all things that were, are, and will be, who exists out…
Yes, not many people these days like to hear senseless drivel, hence the failing churches.
Have you visited a church lately? You might like it. I for sure, do!
Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole
#469More info available.
TARS is a new theoretical framework that fundamentally reimagines the foundations of physics. Instead of assuming that reality is made of pre-existing entities (particles, fields, or spacetime itself), TARS posits that everything that exists is, at root, a relation. In this view, the universe is a dynamic network of coherence relations, and what we perceive as space, time, matter, and even physical laws, are emergent phenomena arising from this underlying relational web.
1. Motivation: The Crisis in Fundamental Physics
Modern physics, despite its immense successes, faces deep unresolved problems:
The incompatibility between General Relativity (GR) and Quantum Field Theory (QFT)—the so-called "quantum gravity problem."
The mystery of singularities (in black holes and at the Big Bang), the nature of time, and the unexplained phenomena of dark matter and dark energy.
The lack of a unifying principle that can reconcile the fragmented domains of current theories.
TARS responds to these challenges by proposing a radical ontological shift: relations, not entities, are fundamental. This shift is not just a new model, but a new grammar for describing reality.
2. Ontological Foundations: Radical Relationalism
Core Postulate:
"All that exists is relation."
There are no absolute, isolated objects. The very identity of any "entity" (particle, field, law) is defined by its pattern of relations with all others.
The universe is fundamentally non-separable: no part can be fully understood in isolation.
This principle generalizes quantum entanglement to a universal ontological status.
Realism and Symbiosis
Symbiotic Realism: Entities and their properties are co-constituted through mutual relations. There are no intrinsic properties, only extrinsic, dynamically co-created ones.
The observer is not external, but an active node in the relational web. Knowledge itself is a process of coherent participation in this network.
3. Mathematical Formalism
3.1. From Discrete Relations to Emergent Fields
At the most fundamental level, reality consists of discrete coherence relations, denoted ξ_{ij} (or quantum operators ξ̂_{ij}), between abstract nodes.
At emergent scales, these relations manifest as a continuous coherence field ϕ_{μν}(x), a symmetric tensor field encoding the density and structure of relational coherence at each emergent spacetime point.
The emergent metric is given by: g_{μν}(ϕ) = e^{2αϕ} η_{μν}
The Symbiotic Action is:
S[ϕ]=∫d4x−g(ϕ)[12gμν(ϕ)(∂μϕ)(∂νϕ)−V(ϕ)]S[ϕ]=∫d4x−g(ϕ)[21gμν(ϕ)(∂μϕ)(∂νϕ)−V(ϕ)]
where V(ϕ) is the relational potential.
3.2. Dynamics: Coherence, Dissonance, and Self-Organization
Local coherence (ξ_l) and global coherence (ξ_c) quantify the degree of relational compatibility.
The difference Δξ = |ξ_c − ξ_l| acts as a "relational tension," driving the system toward higher global coherence.
When Δξ exceeds a threshold, critical reorganizations occur (mediated by an operator F₀), leading to emergent order, the arrow of time, and the formation of physical laws.
3.3. Quantization and Emergence
TARS aspires to a quantum theory of relational fields, where quantization applies to the relations themselves, not to fields on a pre-existing spacetime.
The challenge is to mathematically derive how spacetime, matter, and interactions emerge from the dynamics of ξ̂_{ij}.
4. Phenomenological Implications
TARS provides new perspectives and solutions to major physical puzzles:
Singularity Resolution: The regularization of black hole and cosmological singularities emerges naturally from the relational dynamics.
Dark Matter/Energy: Gravitational anomalies are interpreted as regions of relational coherence deficit, not as unseen particles.
Inflation and Cosmology: The early universe's rapid expansion is modeled as a phase transition in the global coherence field.
Black Hole Evaporation: Predicts a slower, non-singular evaporation process, leaving stable remnants.
Consciousness and Life: Interpreted as high-order reflexivity in relational networks—consciousness is a self-referential coherence loop.
5. Scientific Achievements to Date
Full mathematical formalism: Action, field equations, emergent metric, and relational potentials.
Analytical derivations: For black hole interiors, dark matter effects, and cosmic inflation.
Numerical simulations: Demonstrating the propagation of coherence fronts and self-organization.
Distinct predictions: Such as black hole evaporation profiles and singularity avoidance, differentiating TARS from standard models.
White paper and technical documentation: Comprehensive and available for peer review.
6. Meta-Theoretical and Interdisciplinary Reach
TARS is not just a new physical theory; it is a meta-framework for understanding emergence, organization, and knowledge itself. Its principles can be applied to biology, neuroscience, social systems, and artificial intelligence, wherever complex relational networks give rise to emergent phenomena.
7. Conclusion
TARS offers a radical, mathematically grounded, and phenomenologically rich alternative to current foundational physics. By shifting the focus from entities to relations, it provides a unified language for the emergence of space, time, matter, and law. Its predictions are testable, its formalism is rigorous, and its implications reach far beyond physics, offering a new way to organize scientific and philosophical knowledge.
Re: Research suggests Big Bang may have taken place inside a black hole
#470TARS is a new theoretical framework that fundamentally reimagines the foundations of physics. Instead of assuming that reality is made of pre-existing entities (particles, fields, or spacetime itself), TARS posits that everything that exists is, at root, a relation. In this view, the universe is a dynamic network of coherence relations, and what we perceive as space, time, matter, and even physical laws, are emergent phenomena arising from this underlying relational web.
1. Motivation: The Crisis in Fundamental Physics
Modern physics, despite its immense successes, faces deep unresolved problems:
The incompatibility between General Relativity (GR) and Quantum Field Theory (QFT)—the so-called "quantum gravity problem."
The mystery of singularities (in black holes and at the Big Bang), the nature of time, and the unexplained phenomena of dark matter and dark energy.
The lack of a unifying principle that can reconcile the fragmented domains of current theories.
TARS responds to these challenges by proposing a radical ontological shift: relations, not entities, are fundamental. This shift is not just a new model, but a new grammar for describing reality.
2. Ontological Foundations: Radical Relationalism
Core Postulate:
"All that exists is relation."
There are no absolute, isolated objects. The very identity of any "entity" (particle, field, law) is defined by its pattern of relations with all others.
The universe is fundamentally non-separable: no part can be fully understood in isolation.
This principle generalizes quantum entanglement to a universal ontological status.
Realism and Symbiosis
Symbiotic Realism: Entities and their properties are co-constituted through mutual relations. There are no intrinsic properties, only extrinsic, dynamically co-created ones.
The observer is not external, but an active node in the relational web. Knowledge itself is a process of coherent participation in this network.
3. Mathematical Formalism
3.1. From Discrete Relations to Emergent Fields
At the most fundamental level, reality consists of discrete coherence relations, denoted ξ_{ij} (or quantum operators ξ̂_{ij}), between abstract nodes.
At emergent scales, these relations manifest as a continuous coherence field ϕ_{μν}(x), a symmetric tensor field encoding the density and structure of relational coherence at each emergent spacetime point.
The emergent metric is given by: g_{μν}(ϕ) = e^{2αϕ} η_{μν}
The Symbiotic Action is:
S[ϕ]=∫d4x−g(ϕ)[12gμν(ϕ)(∂μϕ)(∂νϕ)−V(ϕ)]S[ϕ]=∫d4x−g(ϕ)[21gμν(ϕ)(∂μϕ)(∂νϕ)−V(ϕ)]
where V(ϕ) is the relational potential.
3.2. Dynamics: Coherence, Dissonance, and Self-Organization
Local coherence (ξ_l) and global coherence (ξ_c) quantify the degree of relational compatibility.
The difference Δξ = |ξ_c − ξ_l| acts as a "relational tension," driving the system toward higher global coherence.
When Δξ exceeds a threshold, critical reorganizations occur (mediated by an operator F₀), leading to emergent order, the arrow of time, and the formation of physical laws.
3.3. Quantization and Emergence
TARS aspires to a quantum theory of relational fields, where quantization applies to the relations themselves, not to fields on a pre-existing spacetime.
The challenge is to mathematically derive how spacetime, matter, and interactions emerge from the dynamics of ξ̂_{ij}.
4. Phenomenological Implications
TARS provides new perspectives and solutions to major physical puzzles:
Singularity Resolution: The regularization of black hole and cosmological singularities emerges naturally from the relational dynamics.
Dark Matter/Energy: Gravitational anomalies are interpreted as regions of relational coherence deficit, not as unseen particles.
Inflation and Cosmology: The early universe's rapid expansion is modeled as a phase transition in the global coherence field.
Black Hole Evaporation: Predicts a slower, non-singular evaporation process, leaving stable remnants.
Consciousness and Life: Interpreted as high-order reflexivity in relational networks—consciousness is a self-referential coherence loop.
5. Scientific Achievements to Date
Full mathematical formalism: Action, field equations, emergent metric, and relational potentials.
Analytical derivations: For black hole interiors, dark matter effects, and cosmic inflation.
Numerical simulations: Demonstrating the propagation of coherence fronts and self-organization.
Distinct predictions: Such as black hole evaporation profiles and singularity avoidance, differentiating TARS from standard models.
White paper and technical documentation: Comprehensive and available for peer review.
6. Meta-Theoretical and Interdisciplinary Reach
TARS is not just a new physical theory; it is a meta-framework for understanding emergence, organization, and knowledge itself. Its principles can be applied to biology, neuroscience, social systems, and artificial intelligence, wherever complex relational networks give rise to emergent phenomena.
7. Conclusion
TARS offers a radical, mathematically grounded, and phenomenologically rich alternative to current foundational physics. By shifting the focus from entities to relations, it provides a unified language for the emergence of space, time, matter, and law. Its predictions are testable, its formalism is rigorous, and its implications reach far beyond physics, offering a new way to organize scientific and philosophical knowledge.