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Why Koreans ask what year you were born

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Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#171

Post by rafram »

Leftium wrote: post #114

Koreans have some "hacks" to get around this (age-based) social hierarchy: 1. Some workplaces use English names (and even English language) so co-workers can speak/refer to each other without using the social hierarchy constructs built into the Korean language. 2. Social (partnered) dance clubs go by nicknames for the same reason. Even though I dance with them on a regular basis, I don't know most of my dance friends…

> Some workplaces use English names (and even English language) so co-workers can speak/refer to each other without using the social hierarchy constructs built into the Korean language.

That's so interesting. It reminds me very vaguely of Indians escaping the caste hierarchy by converting to Islam or Buddhism. Sometimes the easiest way out of a restrictive system in your culture is just to switch cultural contexts entirely.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#172

Post by ignoramous »

socalgal2 wrote: post #53

This "high power distance" culture contributed to several airline crashes in the 80s and 90s because people under the captain wouldn't dare to question the captain's decisions. One in particular: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Flight_801

Also: PIA 8303 https://www.dailyo.in/variety/pakistan-flight-crash-pia-flig...

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#173

Post by dkga »

I find it surprising actually how much these seniority rules are well-defined in many cultures, but in Brazil there is strong variation - even in the same geography. For example, a colleague who is learning Brazilian Portuguese was under the impression that "você" and "tu" were the equivalent of "vous/tu" or "Sie/du". In reality, they are just different regional ways of saying the informal you. In Brazilian Portuguese is to call someone "o Senhor/a Senhora" based on their gender, with a singular third person declination. And in the countryside, it is common to hear people use "Doutor/Doutora" the same way they would use the normal formal language when addressing educated people or land-owners.

Another example many people outside Brazil find interesting: in my family we were taught to never use the formal towards anyone. The rationale is that everyone is equal and that using the formal language was disrespectful because it created an artificial distance between us and the other person. We were also taught never to use the formal language when praying for the same reason. However, other people are taught to use the formal language towards bosses and elders, also with a respect rationale, and some other folks in Brazil (even from big cities) actually require that their children address them with formal language. So now when in doubt I use the formal language with people that are much older than I am although that feels utterly unnatural to me, but I always make people comfortable to use the informal with me as I personally find this to be more respectful.

Just one more comment: in Brazil it is unfortunately the case that some offices have a standard treatment like "your excellency", etc, which are nominally meant to respect the office but in reality become a kind of test of compliance and obedience. I recall in particular one incident where an attorney presenting in front of the Supreme Court was severely reprimanded for not address justices with the proper term. Personally, I am not sure that required compliance with a style - by regulation or by societal expectations - is indeed "respect" if it is not matched with actions and posture that really reflect due consideration towards the other person.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#174

Post by [deleted] »

ffsm8 wrote: post #134
whstl wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany I never had someone go to those lengths, but I've once made someone visible irritated when I used "du" instead of the more formal "Sie" . Of course I didn't notice but a friend just clued me into it right after. Thing is, in Berlin nobody really cares I guess, but this time I was in the country... oooooops...

That must've been quite some time ago. With multiple areas with >50% migrants you can count yourself lucky if ppl even speak German fluently enough to hold a conversation. And the last holdouts that are still mostly natives are usually in the countryside... And the du/Sie rule has always been an urban convention. Personally, I think your friend just noticed the phrasing and made an issue out of nothing

[deleted]

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#175

Post by yamazakiwi »

ep103 wrote: post #162
jlmcguire wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is this mostly between men and generally not as common as it used to be. My dad is called by his surname by some of his high school pals and call some of them by surname when he's around them (but not in reference to them if he's talking to me). Thinking back to my high school days in the late 00's I can only remember athletes being called by their last name. Perhaps because of football or sports that y…

This is what we used to do, because in one friend group there would be 3 mikes and 2 steves. At some point, you have to use nicknames or last names.

Nicknames include variations like Mikey, Mickey, Mikail, Big Michael, Little Michael, Gas Station Michael, Angry Michael, Tony (obligatory wrong name your group uses because there were already too many Michaels and this Michael liked his middle name)

and Mike.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#176

Post by dcminter »

sumanthvepa wrote: post #36
benediktwerner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, as a German (which also has a similar system), I am the complete opposite, I find it super irritating when people address me by my last name. And the worst part is having to figure out how to address others, especially people you've known for a while but aren't really close to, e.g. say long-time neighbors I rarely meet. Luckily, in the IT industry, it's common to just use first names with everybody.

It's interesting. My closest friends use my last name, while everyone else uses my first name at work. Apparently it was a hangover from the custom at old British public schools that some old Indian schools retained into the 70s/80s. I sort of like it.

I went to a British private school (which we also call "public schools" to annoy Americans) and it was certainly still hanging on there into the 80s.

My brother attended the same school where we briefly overlapped so I was by default "Minter" and when the distinction was needed I was "Minter Minor" and he would have been "Minter Major".

Like many things it doesn't make much sense in retrospect.

Edit: People do still often call me "Mister Minter" where I'd expect them to use my first name, but I think they just like the alliteration. It's not old schoolfriends doing it.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#177

Post by lukas099 »

EarlKing wrote: post #168
cafard wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think American high school kids often refer to and address one another by surname. It was the case when at my son's high school, as I recall at my own, and I think at my wife's. It might have been the case at my father's, and perhaps my wife's parents--I'd have to look at the yearbooks.

Addressing each other by surname is something that occurs principally in the context of sports, but outside of that you'd just address someone by given name. That was the case as regards children addressing each other or teachers addressing students. Students addressing teachers, of course, would address them by Mr/Mrs/Ms. . There are some oddball cases where teachers insist their students address them by given name,…

The surname thing was extremely common even outside of sports at my high school.

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#178

Post by elSidCampeador »

decimalenough wrote: post #55
socalgal2 wrote: post #53

This "high power distance" culture contributed to several airline crashes in the 80s and 90s because people under the captain wouldn't dare to question the captain's decisions. One in particular: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Flight_801

Malcolm Campbell popularized this theory. It's not entirely without merit but as ever the reality is more nuanced. NTSB: > The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of this accident was the captain's failure to adequately brief and execute the non-precision approach and the first officer's and flight engineer's failure to effectively monitor and cross-check the captain's execution of…

*Gladwell - Malcolm Campbell died long ago

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#179

Post by gyomu »

daft_pink wrote: post #145

I've been told the one reason why Japanese is so hard to learn is because there is an underlying etiquette and social hierarchy built into the language and it is not simply being able to understand and speak the words. Native speakers tolerate errors when it's obvious someone is non-native, but become offended when they speak it perfectly, but screw up the social heirarchy, so it's extremely hard to progress beyond a…

Heh that’s overstated. As a non Asian foreigner*, you get a lot of leeway for making mistakes when speaking Japanese, as it is somehow ingrained in the subconscious here that Japanese is very special and very complicated and a foreigner trying to speak it is already doing something near impossible.

If your Japanese is near flawless except for the honorific register that would strike people as weird, but then what did you do to end up speaking flawless Japanese without ever properly internalizing honorific Japanese?

*(If you are an Asian foreigner, you are subject to many other layers of prejudice unrelated to your language ability)

Re: Why Koreans ask what year you were born

#180

Post by DaSHacka »

canjobear wrote: post #147
cafard wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think American high school kids often refer to and address one another by surname. It was the case when at my son's high school, as I recall at my own, and I think at my wife's. It might have been the case at my father's, and perhaps my wife's parents--I'd have to look at the yearbooks.

This was absolutely not the norm I experienced in the 2000s.

Nor I in the 2010's/2020's; I have to assume GP is either significantly older than us, or from a community with a strong cultural bubble that may be clouding their judgement.
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