Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Chatbots are replacing Google's search, devastating traffic for some publishers

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 254 posts

Re: Chatbots are replacing Google's search, devastating traffic for some publishers

#211

Post by jmsdnns »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #58
jmsdnns wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is Ben Franklin addressing this issue back in 1731 by essentially saying, "that's true, but then how would news ever get printed?" https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-01-02-00...

Newspaper really took off during Industrial Revolution, I’m not sure that a 1731 text is pertinent. On that matter, people used to print newspaper for a variety of different reasons, some were to rally public to an opinion (political parties for instance), some were printed to exerce control over their reader (a factory owner making a newspaper for his employee) and there have always been people who wanted to report…

No. Printing presses were used for news well before then. That's why Franklin wrote what he wrote in 1731.

Re: Chatbots are replacing Google's search, devastating traffic for some publishers

#212

Post by hobs »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #93
hobs wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I take it you’re the rebellious teenager then?

Against the biggest corporations? Sure, I'd much rather fulfill the role of overly critical teenager then defensive protective parent when it comes to rapacious companies who deserve none of our support.

Re: Chatbots are replacing Google's search, devastating traffic for some publishers

#213

Post by grues-dinner »

DocTomoe wrote: post #188
bluSCALE4 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were called webrings.

Nah, Webrings were an extension of the link page ... but not the same thing. The Link page was curated by the site operator and usually a linear list. IT's main goal was to say "Hey, this is cool, too". A webring was more like a collective, whereas individual webring members did not necessarily know or agree with every other site in the ring. And it usually was not a list either, but more of a mini topical directory,…

What was the organisation of a webbing like? Did you have to email two people to arrange to insert yourself as a node at the same time to avoid breaking the ring? Or iframe'd in from a central point?

Re: Chatbots are replacing Google's search, devastating traffic for some publishers

#214

Post by OskarS »

chneu wrote: post #203
malnourish wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with the UI, what limitations have you experienced? I've found my searches relevant and haven't noticed any limitations.

The paywall. I'm not against paying, but their free tier limitations are way too low. The UI is just horrible and a huge waste of space. I had to use a user style to make it a non-headache to use. Kagi routinely lacks results that every other search engine I use get no problem. I can't give any examples but I found myself going to page 5+ more often on Kagi than any other service.

If the paywall bothers you, then Kagi just isn't for you, the whole point of it is to have a business model where the users are customers, not the product.

I have no problem with the UI. It's snappy, clean, doesn't have a bunch of cruft, it's easy to find results, etc. It feels like Google of yore.

Same thing with the search results, I find them really excellent. In my experience, there's much less SEO spam. If you search for a programming language function, you get links to the proper documentation, not some trash "geeksforgeeks" site or whatever. I can't remember if I've ever had to go past page one.

Obviously YMMV on that, it's entirely possible it's different depending on what you're searching for. But I'm very happy paying for Kagi, and will continue to do so.

Re: Chatbots are replacing Google's search, devastating traffic for some publishers

#215

Post by lostmsu »

_flux wrote: post #191
lostmsu wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eventually open models will be able to do the same, so why would anyone use ad-ridden service? The first LLM provider who turns on ads on their responses will disappear in a brink.

It will take a long time until an average person has the resources to run models of similar quality (and speed) as Google and OpenAI can provide today.

It took under a year last time.

Re: Chatbots are replacing Google's search, devastating traffic for some publishers

#216

Post by scotty79 »

Last decade or two was gradual exploration of how terrible and ad-infested you can get without people going away to somewhere else entirely. Now that a new elsewhere popped up everybody suddenly found out that instead of being knee deep in sewage, it already reached their mouth and nose.

Re: Chatbots are replacing Google's search, devastating traffic for some publishers

#217

Post by _factor »

timewizard wrote: post #186
torqueehmada wrote: post #168

If nobody writes it, the LLM can't learn it. This is going to be a fascinating shift of resources. I suspect it will have the inverse effect of eroding traditional journalism outlets to retrofit for the new model, while boosting smaller competitors, but with everyone going to subscription based. The content creators could make a significant amount of money. Then again, this would be a great time for state-sponsored m…

I'm naturally conspiratorial; but, this is possibly why search results were intentionally degraded over the past 5 years. Which has had an impact on overall site traffic that has not gone unnoticed. Google's been trying their luck with "creator summits" over the past few years but the creators are starting to smell a rat. So you have Google which famously does not want people to actually leave their property. Infobox…

110% this.

Real web search is disappearing locked behind large datasets unavailable for normal users. The AI screen ensures you’re fed exactly what they intended while siloing off the web more and more to block competition. All the while signing exclusivity deals which should realistically be illegal (try finding current Reddit results anywhere but Google).

AI based interaction makes it much easier to manipulate users into buying your items as they add a layer of human-like trust on top of the machine. It won’t be long before prices are hidden behind LLMs generating prices based on who you are. I’m already noticing ChatGPT becoming more and more enthusiastic about any product it thinks I have the potential of buying. Try asking it if something is a good deal, 9 times out of 10 it will say, “Yes, go for it.”

We don’t want to live in a proprietary world where LLMs exist. This technology needs to be open. The search data needs to be open and not walled off to only monopolies. This is an inflection point.

Re: Chatbots are replacing Google's search, devastating traffic for some publishers

#218

Post by phantom_wizard »

They did it to themselves. I'm sure we will read books about their failure and the replacement of Google search with chats and llms. The outcome is quite peculiar, because those chats are a blessing but should we really give them our data away. Scary what they will do with it. It was already scary enough with Google.

Re: Chatbots are replacing Google's search, devastating traffic for some publishers

#219

Post by iambateman »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #71
iambateman wrote: post #63

If the vast majority of Google revenue comes from search, and search is under siege, why is the stock so unfazed? It seems like the market thinks Google will be just fine.

Windows and Office used to make up >90% of Microsoft's revenue, back when Microsoft was the biggest company in the world around DotCom. Windows especially has been a sinking ship for a decade and yet Microsoft is bigger than ever. Google is well positioned to monetize LLMs. Cloud, Gemini, and Waymo are all growing and could easily be Fortune 50 companies each within a few years. Gsuite continues to do well. Google Se…

This is interesting, thanks. Thinking about the share of monetized searches is helpful.

Re: Chatbots are replacing Google's search, devastating traffic for some publishers

#220

Post by MyPasswordSucks »

grues-dinner wrote: post #213
DocTomoe wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, Webrings were an extension of the link page ... but not the same thing. The Link page was curated by the site operator and usually a linear list. IT's main goal was to say "Hey, this is cool, too". A webring was more like a collective, whereas individual webring members did not necessarily know or agree with every other site in the ring. And it usually was not a list either, but more of a mini topical directory,…

What was the organisation of a webbing like? Did you have to email two people to arrange to insert yourself as a node at the same time to avoid breaking the ring? Or iframe'd in from a central point?

Webrings were usually a centralized and automated entity. You'd add your site to the index (either through a webform or by emailing the maintainer), then link to http:// web-ring.tld /cgi-bin/ring?site=currentsitename&action=next or something similar, which would then redirect to the actual next site in the ring.

In their heyday, there'd also be "start your own webring" sites, so you didn't need cgi-bin access on your GeoShitties or AngelFucker or TriPoop or xoom [1] site in order to start up a webring.

[1] The dry and square history books will claim that the most exciting thing about xoom was its large storage allocation (10mb at launch! 25 soon after! You could upload an entire three minute mp3 at 128CBR "CD-Quality" bitrate and still have tons of space left over for two-frame .gifs!) or its simple members.xoom. com/username URL, but the true soldiers of those bygone battledays will know it was xoom's resiliency to childish renaming-mockery.

Post reply on HN