Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book • Hacker News Board

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#51

Post by lutusp » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 5:56 PM UTC

ahoyhere wrote: post #50

lutusp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Take a screenshot of this comment as witness, but I'm serious about refunding anyone who ends up not being able to raise their client rates. Some advice -- you really, really don't want to do this. You don't need to guarantee results to sell a worthwhile book, and IMHO you shouldn't. Here's why: 1. Let's say you have a profit margin of 20% on your book overall -- printing costs, promotion, etc. versus income. 2. Le…

Does your position come from experience in selling an ebook or other educational product?

Yes -- but my book isn't a traditional, mass-printed book like that under discussion. When someone orders a copy of my book, one copy gets printed and shipped. Unlike in traditional publishing, there are no piles of my book in a warehouse, awaiting sale.

And I have to tell you, this new publishing model is going to wipe out the old model (so-called "dead-tree publishing"). And pretty soon, even that model will fall before the e-book model, where no "book" is printed at all, ever.

But as a writer I've dealt with various aspects of the old-style publishing business over a period of decades, not all with respect to books.

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#52

Post by rgraham » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 6:34 PM UTC

manmal wrote: post #18

thibaut_barrere wrote: post #13

"Money – cold, hard cash – on the other hand. That’s the ultimate form of validation." This is priceless especially considering how much effort goes into writing a book or creating a SaaS product.

How do you actually contact people to ask for this? Emailing people? Or making a signup page and see who clicks on the (faux) "buy" button?

For my book (see profile) I developed the idea because my posts about cold calling for entrepreneurs became so popular.

After that, I just started collecting emails, asking the list members qualitative questions, and honing copy by testing.

If you started with an idea for a book and no audience demanding it, you should really execute the whole custdev process in one form or another to verify demand. Pre-sales is a great avenue for that.

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#53

Post by beaker » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 7:03 PM UTC

The copy on this article and the book page itself feels so spammy that I would never buy the product. I respect the desire/need to make money, but I do think a certain percentage of your potential audience will be turned off immediately by the excessive use of this type of obvious marketing-speak (excessive use of bold fonts, short, pointed sentences, all the vague truisms, "money back guarantee"..). I hope this doesn't become the standard type of post on Hacker News, I'm sorry but after clicking on that link it really feels like I've just been spammed.

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#54

Post by patio11 » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 7:12 PM UTC

lutusp wrote: post #44

bdunn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an ebook with worksheets and additional case studies / interviews from freelancers who charge a lot (most notably: Amy Hoy and Thomas Fuchs). Take a screenshot of this comment as witness, but I'm serious about refunding anyone who ends up not being able to raise their client rates. Paying for stuff that doesn't deliver value is dumb.

> Take a screenshot of this comment as witness, but I'm serious about refunding anyone who ends up not being able to raise their client rates. Some advice -- you really, really don't want to do this. You don't need to guarantee results to sell a worthwhile book, and IMHO you shouldn't. Here's why: 1. Let's say you have a profit margin of 20% on your book overall -- printing costs, promotion, etc. versus income. 2. Le…

You believe something about people's behavior which is a testable proposition about the nature of material reality, like "If you push an apple off a table it will accelerate to the nearest cat." The scientific method exists. Have no worries, your apples and profits are both safe, because both those theories are absolutely false.

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#55

Post by dchuk » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 7:15 PM UTC

beaker wrote: post #53

The copy on this article and the book page itself feels so spammy that I would never buy the product. I respect the desire/need to make money, but I do think a certain percentage of your potential audience will be turned off immediately by the excessive use of this type of obvious marketing-speak (excessive use of bold fonts, short, pointed sentences, all the vague truisms, "money back guarantee"..). I hope this does…

take off the tinfoil hat, there's a reason you see that kind of copywriting and styling a lot...it works, and it works very well.

So long as the product being sold is legitimate, usage of that styling and copy is more than acceptable as it's a proven way to increase sales and conversions.

Marketing != Evil

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#56

Post by bdunn » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 7:19 PM UTC

beaker wrote: post #53

The copy on this article and the book page itself feels so spammy that I would never buy the product. I respect the desire/need to make money, but I do think a certain percentage of your potential audience will be turned off immediately by the excessive use of this type of obvious marketing-speak (excessive use of bold fonts, short, pointed sentences, all the vague truisms, "money back guarantee"..). I hope this does…

Thanks for the comment, and I used to agree with just about everything you said.

However, there's nothing at all wrong with "marketing-speak". It's based on psychology: people skim, bolding is used to emphasize importance, and money back guarantees - well, they're exactly what they mean.

For most things, I personally prefer easily digestible content over blocks and blocks of text.

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#57

Post by chc » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 7:46 PM UTC

lutusp wrote: post #44

bdunn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an ebook with worksheets and additional case studies / interviews from freelancers who charge a lot (most notably: Amy Hoy and Thomas Fuchs). Take a screenshot of this comment as witness, but I'm serious about refunding anyone who ends up not being able to raise their client rates. Paying for stuff that doesn't deliver value is dumb.

> Take a screenshot of this comment as witness, but I'm serious about refunding anyone who ends up not being able to raise their client rates. Some advice -- you really, really don't want to do this. You don't need to guarantee results to sell a worthwhile book, and IMHO you shouldn't. Here's why: 1. Let's say you have a profit margin of 20% on your book overall -- printing costs, promotion, etc. versus income. 2. Le…

I'm doubtful about points 2 and 3 since it doesn't match my observations of how people really act†, but point 4 really sounds out there. Like, anybody can sue over anything. Does this meaningfully increase your risk? It's really hard to imagine some lawsuit-happy fellow who would sue you if you offered them a refund but not if you didn't offer a refund. Have you actually seen much of this?

† My experience is that people tend to be very lazy about things like mail-in rebates and and money-back guarantees, passing them up even when they're perfectly entitled.

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#58

Post by shredfvz » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 8:02 PM UTC

bdunn wrote: post #56

beaker wrote: post #53

The copy on this article and the book page itself feels so spammy that I would never buy the product. I respect the desire/need to make money, but I do think a certain percentage of your potential audience will be turned off immediately by the excessive use of this type of obvious marketing-speak (excessive use of bold fonts, short, pointed sentences, all the vague truisms, "money back guarantee"..). I hope this does…

Thanks for the comment, and I used to agree with just about everything you said. However, there's nothing at all wrong with "marketing-speak". It's based on psychology: people skim, bolding is used to emphasize importance, and money back guarantees - well, they're exactly what they mean. For most things, I personally prefer easily digestible content over blocks and blocks of text.

So instead of arguing ... what % of HNers are actually clicking through to your "no bullshit" offer?

Very few articles on the front page of HN are littered with testimonials and sales copy.

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#59

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 8:11 PM UTC

dchuk wrote: post #55

beaker wrote: post #53

The copy on this article and the book page itself feels so spammy that I would never buy the product. I respect the desire/need to make money, but I do think a certain percentage of your potential audience will be turned off immediately by the excessive use of this type of obvious marketing-speak (excessive use of bold fonts, short, pointed sentences, all the vague truisms, "money back guarantee"..). I hope this does…

take off the tinfoil hat, there's a reason you see that kind of copywriting and styling a lot...it works, and it works very well. So long as the product being sold is legitimate, usage of that styling and copy is more than acceptable as it's a proven way to increase sales and conversions. Marketing != Evil

[deleted]

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#60

Post by bdunn » Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 8:15 PM UTC

shredfvz wrote: post #58

bdunn wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the comment, and I used to agree with just about everything you said. However, there's nothing at all wrong with "marketing-speak". It's based on psychology: people skim, bolding is used to emphasize importance, and money back guarantees - well, they're exactly what they mean. For most things, I personally prefer easily digestible content over blocks and blocks of text.

So instead of arguing ... what % of HNers are actually clicking through to your "no bullshit" offer? Very few articles on the front page of HN are littered with testimonials and sales copy.

I've made just under $1,000 in sales today from HN. 1 in 7 people who have clicked through to the article go to the sales page.

EDIT: I'm sure a few people people are skeptical. Here's a screenshot from ejunkie (and I just crossed over the $1k mark): https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2205912/Screen%20Shot%202012-08-23%...