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Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

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Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#41

Post by dchurchv »

lutusp wrote: post #39
dchurchv wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I follow this. Pre-ordering books is a pretty well established practice among publishers (yes, real ones, not just ebook authors). Actually, it's the primary hack for getting on best-seller lists (pre-orders, then fulfillment in strategic batches designed to show consistent sales over time). Or is this a more basic "No one should sell anything that doesn't already exist" argument? If so, I'd point out concer…

> Not sure I follow this. Pre-ordering books is a pretty well established practice among publishers ... The difference is the person pre-ordering can back out, and generally speaking in pre-orders, no payment is made until delivery. It ends up being a measure of public enthusiasm, not a way to gather revenues in advance of delivery. In this case, people are paying for a book that doesn't exist yet. > Actually, it's t…

Ok, but you didn't address my point about concert tickets et al. Obviously you pay in advance of seeing the concert, or attending the conference, and sometimes these things get canceled.

It's reasonable to expect money back, or worst case some sort of "raincheck" in case of a cancelation or delay. Same applies to ebooks in my mind.

"Public enthusiasm" doesn't pay the deposit for a concert hall or conference center, right? Why should an author not get paid in advance of the effort of writing a book? [Hint: authors already figured this out a couple of centuries ago - thus the publishers' advance]

So it's not really a question of money changing hands, it's just whose money, and whose hands.

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#42

Post by rprasad »

lutusp wrote: post #30

I hate to sound old-fashioned, but this puts the cart before the horse. Authors should have a book available for sale before accepting delivery payments. Ask any publisher how this sort of thing usually works out.

He's basically asking for an advance directly from his readers. The flipside, of course, is that he must also return this "advance" if no book is made available.

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#43

Post by bdunn »

rprasad wrote: post #42
lutusp wrote: post #30

I hate to sound old-fashioned, but this puts the cart before the horse. Authors should have a book available for sale before accepting delivery payments. Ask any publisher how this sort of thing usually works out.

He's basically asking for an advance directly from his readers. The flipside, of course, is that he must also return this "advance" if no book is made available.

Exactly. PayPal would also step in and refund if I flaked out on my side of the deal.

It goes without saying, I'm pretty certain I'm going to make a LOT more money in sales once the book is ready (immediate gratification). So it's in my best interest to get this out the door soon.

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#44

Post by lutusp »

bdunn wrote: post #6
alanmackenzie wrote: post #5

I would quite happily preorder a copy of your book but there's not enough information to feel comfortable about parting with $39. Is this an ebook or in dead tree format? Do you ship internationally?

It's an ebook with worksheets and additional case studies / interviews from freelancers who charge a lot (most notably: Amy Hoy and Thomas Fuchs). Take a screenshot of this comment as witness, but I'm serious about refunding anyone who ends up not being able to raise their client rates. Paying for stuff that doesn't deliver value is dumb.

> Take a screenshot of this comment as witness, but I'm serious about refunding anyone who ends up not being able to raise their client rates.

Some advice -- you really, really don't want to do this. You don't need to guarantee results to sell a worthwhile book, and IMHO you shouldn't.

Here's why:

1. Let's say you have a profit margin of 20% on your book overall -- printing costs, promotion, etc. versus income.

2. Let's also say that 80% of your book's readers do increase their client base as you claim.

3. The problem is that the remaining 20% can take you at your word, demand a refund, explain that the book was lost in a fire, and succeed in wiping out your profit.

4. Worse, someone might say your claim moved your book from the category of an ordinary caveat-emptor purchase, to a guarantee of success, and demand consequential damages. Very bad, and you made it possible.

It works like this: Because of the First Amendment, an author can say virtually anything in a book -- anything. But when you make a claim about a book's contents to motivate sales, you short-circuit First Amendment protections -- you turn your book from a freely expressed opinion, to a method with a guaranteed outcome. Very bad idea.

> Paying for stuff that doesn't deliver value is dumb.

Not as dumb as making an unnecessary claim that has a potentially disastrous outcome.

Just my opinion, expressed in words, with no guarantees.

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#45

Post by lutusp »

dchurchv wrote: post #41
lutusp wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not sure I follow this. Pre-ordering books is a pretty well established practice among publishers ... The difference is the person pre-ordering can back out, and generally speaking in pre-orders, no payment is made until delivery. It ends up being a measure of public enthusiasm, not a way to gather revenues in advance of delivery. In this case, people are paying for a book that doesn't exist yet. > Actually, it's t…

Ok, but you didn't address my point about concert tickets et al. Obviously you pay in advance of seeing the concert, or attending the conference, and sometimes these things get canceled. It's reasonable to expect money back, or worst case some sort of "raincheck" in case of a cancelation or delay. Same applies to ebooks in my mind. "Public enthusiasm" doesn't pay the deposit for a concert hall or conference center, r…

> Ok, but you didn't address my point about concert tickets et al.

Fair enough. A concert doesn't work like a book -- the concert venue must know who is coming, in what numbers, in order to prepare. A traditional book publisher only needs to know enough to decide on the size of the next "printing", to fill the supply channel incrementally, as demand warrants.

The concert happens all at once, so the audience size must be known up front. The book publication might stretch over decades, with periodic decisions about the size of the next printing, so the publisher only needs to know the rate of change in demand, the "first derivative," to use the calculus term.

Two very different cases, from very different, non-comparable businesses.

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#46

Post by bdunn »

lutusp wrote: post #44
bdunn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an ebook with worksheets and additional case studies / interviews from freelancers who charge a lot (most notably: Amy Hoy and Thomas Fuchs). Take a screenshot of this comment as witness, but I'm serious about refunding anyone who ends up not being able to raise their client rates. Paying for stuff that doesn't deliver value is dumb.

> Take a screenshot of this comment as witness, but I'm serious about refunding anyone who ends up not being able to raise their client rates. Some advice -- you really, really don't want to do this. You don't need to guarantee results to sell a worthwhile book, and IMHO you shouldn't. Here's why: 1. Let's say you have a profit margin of 20% on your book overall -- printing costs, promotion, etc. versus income. 2. Le…

Thanks for your thoughtful comment - the bit about making a guarantee that your product will do X really does make sense when put like that.

Ultimately, I realize a few things 1) relatively few people take up money back guarantee offers and 2) I do want to ensure that people are happy with their purchase. Maybe there's a better way of doing that than ensuring some outcome?

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#47

Post by dchurchv »

lutusp wrote: post #45
dchurchv wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but you didn't address my point about concert tickets et al. Obviously you pay in advance of seeing the concert, or attending the conference, and sometimes these things get canceled. It's reasonable to expect money back, or worst case some sort of "raincheck" in case of a cancelation or delay. Same applies to ebooks in my mind. "Public enthusiasm" doesn't pay the deposit for a concert hall or conference center, r…

> Ok, but you didn't address my point about concert tickets et al. Fair enough. A concert doesn't work like a book -- the concert venue must know who is coming, in what numbers, in order to prepare. A traditional book publisher only needs to know enough to decide on the size of the next "printing", to fill the supply channel incrementally, as demand warrants. The concert happens all at once, so the audience size must…

Yes, of course, I'm not making an argument that concerts and books are the same business. That would be dumb.

I'm saying rather, there's no obvious reason to not get paid for them the same way, as long as the audience is willing. If they're not willing, that obviously won't work. But clearly in some cases (like the OPs), they are willing.

So as an author, you'd have to be irrational to not want to be paid as early as possible.

As a purchaser, you're free to vote with your wallet, and not pre-buy anything you don't want to. But if you want what the author is proposing, and want to give him encouragement by pre-buying, why is that somehow bad or wrong?

And my fuzzy calculus aside, the first printing for most books will also be the last one. So better to get the volume right. If only there were a way to accurately gauge demand before doing a printing...

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#48

Post by dchurchv »

bdunn wrote: post #46
lutusp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Take a screenshot of this comment as witness, but I'm serious about refunding anyone who ends up not being able to raise their client rates. Some advice -- you really, really don't want to do this. You don't need to guarantee results to sell a worthwhile book, and IMHO you shouldn't. Here's why: 1. Let's say you have a profit margin of 20% on your book overall -- printing costs, promotion, etc. versus income. 2. Le…

Thanks for your thoughtful comment - the bit about making a guarantee that your product will do X really does make sense when put like that. Ultimately, I realize a few things 1) relatively few people take up money back guarantee offers and 2) I do want to ensure that people are happy with their purchase. Maybe there's a better way of doing that than ensuring some outcome?

"If you aren't completely satisfied with this book I'll return your money, no questions asked" works for me.

No need to guarantee success, just guarantee quality information that you believe when applied correctly will lead to success.

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#49

Post by lutusp »

dchurchv wrote: post #47
lutusp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ok, but you didn't address my point about concert tickets et al. Fair enough. A concert doesn't work like a book -- the concert venue must know who is coming, in what numbers, in order to prepare. A traditional book publisher only needs to know enough to decide on the size of the next "printing", to fill the supply channel incrementally, as demand warrants. The concert happens all at once, so the audience size must…

Yes, of course, I'm not making an argument that concerts and books are the same business. That would be dumb. I'm saying rather, there's no obvious reason to not get paid for them the same way, as long as the audience is willing. If they're not willing, that obviously won't work. But clearly in some cases (like the OPs), they are willing. So as an author, you'd have to be irrational to not want to be paid as early as…

> And my fuzzy calculus aside, the first printing for most books will also be the last one.

This is not the norm in publishing, at least, the desirable kind. For most publishers who promote and market books, profits don't start until the first printing has sold out and subsequent printings begin, with (a) all book preparation activities already complete, and (b) a public who don't need to be persuaded of a book's value. It is at this point that an author begins to be looked on as more than a one-trick pony.

Imagine a pre-publication advertisement: "A truly epic myth! Floods, plagues, the anguish of being unimaginably stupid! Certain to be a best-seller if the author ever gets done writing it! Pre-order the Bible now -- get in before the rush!"

:)

> If only there were a way to accurately gauge demand before doing a printing...

In modern publishing, there's no need -- books are printed, one copy at a time, when they are ordered. For example, my book only gets printed after someone buys a copy. This change (electronic on-demand publishing) essentially wipes out the traditional publishing model.

Re: Selling $2,000+ Worth Of My Unfinished Book

#50

Post by ahoyhere »

lutusp wrote: post #44
bdunn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an ebook with worksheets and additional case studies / interviews from freelancers who charge a lot (most notably: Amy Hoy and Thomas Fuchs). Take a screenshot of this comment as witness, but I'm serious about refunding anyone who ends up not being able to raise their client rates. Paying for stuff that doesn't deliver value is dumb.

> Take a screenshot of this comment as witness, but I'm serious about refunding anyone who ends up not being able to raise their client rates. Some advice -- you really, really don't want to do this. You don't need to guarantee results to sell a worthwhile book, and IMHO you shouldn't. Here's why: 1. Let's say you have a profit margin of 20% on your book overall -- printing costs, promotion, etc. versus income. 2. Le…

Does your position come from experience in selling an ebook or other educational product?
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