I agree with the substance, but would argue the author fails to "understand how AI works" in an important way: LLMs are impressive probability gadgets that have been fed nearly the entire internet, and produce writing not by thinking but by making statistically informed guesses about which lexical item is likely to follow another Modern chat-tuned LLMs are not simply statistical models trained on web scale datasets.…
More accurately: Modern chat-oriented LLMs are not simply statistical models trained on web scale datasets. Instead, they are the result of a two-stage process: first, large-scale pretraining on internet data, and then extensive fine-tuning through human feedback. Much of what makes these models feel responsive, safe, or emotionally intelligent is the outcome of thousands of hours of human annotation, often performed…
What happens when people don't understand how AI works
151–160 of 359 posts
Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
The terminology is so confusing in AI right now. I use LLMs, I enjoy them, I'm more productive with them. Then I go read a blog from some AI devs and they use terms like "thinking" or similar terms. I always have to ask "We're still s stringing words together with math right? Not really thinking right?" The answer is always yes ... but then they go back to using their wonky terms.
The question is what's different in your own "thinking?"
Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works
#153I agree with the substance, but would argue the author fails to "understand how AI works" in an important way: LLMs are impressive probability gadgets that have been fed nearly the entire internet, and produce writing not by thinking but by making statistically informed guesses about which lexical item is likely to follow another Modern chat-tuned LLMs are not simply statistical models trained on web scale datasets.…
Ya I don’t think I’ve seen any article going in depth into just how many low level humans like data labelers and RLHF’ers there are behind the scenes of these big models. It has to be millions of people worldwide.
https://www.theverge.com/features/23764584/ai-artificial-int...
Interestingly, despite the boring and rote nature of this work, it can also become quite complicated as well. The author signed up to do data labeling and was given 43 pages (!) of instructions for an image labeling task with a long list of dos and don'ts. Specialist annotation, e.g. chatbot training by a subject matter expert, is a growing field that apparently pays as much as $50 an hour.
"Put another way, ChatGPT seems so human because it was trained by an AI that was mimicking humans who were rating an AI that was mimicking humans who were pretending to be a better version of an AI that was trained on human writing..."
Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well nothing's perfect. It actually got that one wrong - it said "not typically effective" which isn't true.
Nothing is perfect, but some things let you validate the answer. Search engines give you search results, not an answer. You can use the traditional methods for evaluating the reliability of a resource. An academic resource focused on the toxicity of various kinds of chemicals is probably fairly trustworthy, while a blog from someone trying to sell you healing crystals probably isn't. When you're using ChatGPT to find…
Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works
#155I agree with the substance, but would argue the author fails to "understand how AI works" in an important way: LLMs are impressive probability gadgets that have been fed nearly the entire internet, and produce writing not by thinking but by making statistically informed guesses about which lexical item is likely to follow another Modern chat-tuned LLMs are not simply statistical models trained on web scale datasets.…
Many like the author fail to convince me because they never also explain how human minds work. They just wave their hand, look off to a corner of the ceiling with, "But of course that's not how humans think at all," as if we all just know that.
* direct causal contact with the environment, e.g., the light from the pen hits my eye, which induces mental states
* sensory-motor coordination, ie., that the light hits my eye from the pen enables coordination of the movement of the pen with my body
* sensory-motor representations, ie., my sensory motor system is trainable, and trained by historical envirionemntal coordination
* heirachical planning in coordination, ie., these sensory-motor representations are goal-contextualised, so that I can "solve my hunger" in an infinite number of ways (i can achive this goal against an infinite permutation of obstacles)
* counterfactual reality-oriented mental simulation (aka imagination) -- these rich sensory motor representatiosn are reifable in imagination so i can simulate novel permutaitons to the environment, possible shifts to physics, and so on. I can anticipate these infinite number of obsatcles before any have occured, or have ever occured.
* self-modelling feedback loops, ie., that my own process of sensory-motor coordination is an input into that coordination
* abstraction in self-modelling, ie., that i can form cognitive representations of my own goal directed actions as they succeed/fail, and treat them as objects of their own refinement
* abstraction across representation mental faculties into propositional represenations, ie., that when i imagine that "I am writing", the object of my imagination is the very same object as the action "to write" -- so I know that when I recall/imagine/act/reflect/etc. I am operating on the very-same-objects of thought
* facilities of cognition: quantification, causal reasoning, discrete logical reasoning -- etc. which can be applied both at the sensory, motor and abstract conceptual level (ie., i can "count in sensation" a few objects, also with action, also in intellection)
* concept formation: abduction, various various of induction, etc.
* concept composition: recursion, composition in extension of concepts, composition in intension, etc.
One can go on and on here.
Decribe only what happens in a few minutes of the life of a toddler as they play around with some blocks and you have listed, rather trivially, a vast universe of capbilities that an LLM lacks.
To believe an LLM has anything to do with intelligence is to have somewhat quite profoundly mistaken what capabilities are implied by intelligence -- what animals have, some more than others, and a few even more so. To think this has anything to do with linguistic competence is a proudly strange view of the world.
Nature did not produce intelligence in animals in order that they acquire competence in the correct ordering of linguistic tokens. Universities did, to some degree, produce computer science departments for this activity however.
Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
The terminology is so confusing in AI right now. I use LLMs, I enjoy them, I'm more productive with them. Then I go read a blog from some AI devs and they use terms like "thinking" or similar terms. I always have to ask "We're still s stringing words together with math right? Not really thinking right?" The answer is always yes ... but then they go back to using their wonky terms.
The question is what's different in your own "thinking?"
Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
I always like to compare tongue in cheek, llm's with I-ching https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Ching
Why?
make your own conclusions
Because both LLMs and the I Ching function as mirrors for human interpretation, where: • The I Ching offers cryptic symbols and phrases—users project meaning onto them. • LLMs generate probabilistic text—users extract significance based on context.
The parallel is:
You don’t get answers, you get patterns—and the meaning emerges from your interaction with the system.
In both cases, the output is: • Context-sensitive • Open-ended • Interpreted more than dictated
It’s a cheeky way of highlighting that users bring the meaning, not the machine (or oracle).
Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works
#158LLMs are divinatory instruments, our era's oracle, minus the incense and theatrics. If we were honest, we'd admit that "artificial intelligence" is just a modern gloss on a very old instinct: to consult a higher-order text generator and search for wisdom in the obscure. They tick all the boxes: oblique meaning, a semiotic field, the illusion of hidden knowledge, and a ritual interface. The only reason we don't call i…
The terminology is so confusing in AI right now. I use LLMs, I enjoy them, I'm more productive with them. Then I go read a blog from some AI devs and they use terms like "thinking" or similar terms. I always have to ask "We're still s stringing words together with math right? Not really thinking right?" The answer is always yes ... but then they go back to using their wonky terms.
But I'm so crestfallen and pessimistic about the future of software and software engineering now that I have stopped fighting that battle.
Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
The question is what's different in your own "thinking?"
Thinking in humans is prior to language. The language apparatus is embedded in a living organism which has a biological state that produces thoughts and feelings, goals and desires. Language is then used to communicate these underlying things, which themselves are not linguistic in nature (though of course the causality is so complex that the may be _influenced_ by language among other things).
Re: What happens when people don't understand how AI works
#160Many people who claim that people don't understand how AI works often have a very simplified view of the short comings of LLMs themselves, e.g. "it's just predicting the next token", "it's just statistics", "stochastic parrot" and seems to be grounded in what AI was 2-3 years ago. Rarely have they actually read the recent research on interpretability. It's clear LLMs are doing more than just pattern matching. They ma…
Apple recently published a paper that seems to disagree and plainly states it's just pattern matching along with tests to prove it. https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/illusion-of-think...
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/news-anthropic-ceo-ai-i... Anthropic CEO: “We Do Not Understand How Our Own AI Creations Work”. I'm going to lean with Anthropic on this one.