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Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

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Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#642
post #588
post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ranked Choice Voting goes a long way to solving this as well.

Does it? Could you explain which mechanism you suggest using? Because the main results from social choice theory about ranked choice voting that come to mind seem to be all about impossibility of fair elections (eg Arrow) or even paradoxical situations such as cyclic preferences (eg Condorcet).

Since none of the proposed replacements can be perfect according to the theory, let’s just stick with the worst one.

Big fat /s

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#643

There is so much theater and reality TV in the Trump administration that it's hard to conclude anything. Most of the theater is there to play to his MAGA base. First there was the (staged?) row with Zelensky. A couple of months later nothing has really changed. Now Musk left as planned (he couldn't stay longer than 130 days in that position). Time for another public row to show that Trump is tough on subsidies for el…

This is so farfetched and I find it absolutely bizarre that anyone can have a worldview where they think this level of conspiracy is the most likely explanation for any of these things. It runs contrary to the point of a conspiracy which is to do things that benefit you. Being called a pedophile and splitting your base is not to your benefit. Even if it was to his benefit to get called a pedophile, there still would…

Direct your bewilderment at the conspiracy theorists of the NYT!

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/06/technology/elon-musk-trum...

"The spat was revelatory, it was epic, it was historic, at least according to the thousands of earnest and excited commentaries that were instantly published.

It was also a well-timed outburst.

Mr. Musk and Mr. Trump did not have a feud five days ago and might not have a feud five days from now. Until proved otherwise, all of this is theater. Think of it as the political version of professional wrestling. For a few hours, everyone was diverted by the spectacle of a brawl between the world’s richest man and its most powerful person."

Having you and other politically naive persons shoot down anything as a "conspiracy theory" is exactly what enables the system.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#644
post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In no way this is a good example of such a system, but I still find Bosnia and Herzegovina political system absolutely hilarious. After Dayton peace agreement the literally put ethnicity requirement for presidents to Constitution as a hard rule. One Bosnian, one Serb and one Croatian. And yes, the country is ran by 3 presidents at the same time. So there is no longer a competition whether the main guy in the country…

Northern Ireland has a similar system, with an executive built on a forced coalition. The executive is led by a First Minister and Deputy First Minister (despite the difference in title, they have exactly equal powers), who are selected from the largest party representing each of the two main communities. Major decisions require cross-community support - at least 50% of all those voting AND 50% of the representatives…

I don't know... Never go to sea with two chronometers; take one or three. Two guys with equal power is a recipe for inaction in critical moments.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#645

At least Berlusconi didn't have access to nuclear warheads. Seriously, I visited the US few times between 2005 and 2010 and each time people were raising the topic of Berlusconi. How can you have a president like that, who voted for him, bunga bunga etc etc. Now you know how you can have such personality in power too. With even more power.

> How can you have a president like that Did people really think that Berlusconi was the president of Italy?

Mainly the people that voted for him.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#646

At least Berlusconi didn't have access to nuclear warheads. Seriously, I visited the US few times between 2005 and 2010 and each time people were raising the topic of Berlusconi. How can you have a president like that, who voted for him, bunga bunga etc etc. Now you know how you can have such personality in power too. With even more power.

> How can you have a president like that Did people really think that Berlusconi was the president of Italy?

Wasn't he?

Unless you mean president !== primer minister, but that would be such a futile remark in this context.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It's an evolutionarily beneficial trait. We're no longer competing with other species (why social traits developed), we're competing against each other (where the right amount of anti-social traits works best).

We desperately need to fix those incentives for society and civilisation to survive.

Unfortunately that is way outside too many people's Overton window. And, also unfortunately, I don't think the average human is sufficiently intelligent to understand why he should care.[note 1]

Throughout history, we see cycles of freedom and oppression, separated by either collapse or revolt.

- Collapse happens when anti-socials gain so much power in an organization (whether it's a corporation or state) that it starts to function so poorly that it's overtaken by competitors (or even destroys itself).

- Revolt happens when they gain/use that power too blatantly and people notice. Peaceful revolt is possible on the surface but ultimately, all true power is backed by violence - sometimes that violence is just thinly veiled behind multiple steps of action and reaction (unarmed protesters attacked by police will bring rocks and Molotovs next time which will cause even more attacks from the police which might escalate into civil war).

But right now we're at a point where oppressors have enough history to learn from. They don't care about collapse and revolt only happens when people are willing to act. So what they're doing right now is conditioning everyone that violence is wrong. This comes in many forms: bans on social media (every TOS forbids promoting violence these days), forced self-censorship (just watch a couple youtube shorts, good luck finding one where "kill" isn't spelled "k*ll" and bleeped out), zero-tolerance policies (school will punish both aggressor and target when they get into a fight), ...

Trump is a fascist (https://acoup.blog/2024/10/25/new-acquisitions-1933-and-the-...). Last time people like him got into power in the civilized world, one was shot and hung upside down from a gas station, the other killed himself in a bunker. But this time when people reached for the 4th box of liberty, they were almost universally shunned. So he got into power, elected by the stupid people, and to nobody's surprise immediately started dismantling the system which exists to keep him in check.

He will do it slowly enough that each time he takes a step towards his goal, he will only piss off a small portion of the people and there will never be enough organized opposition at once. At least this time the dictator-elect is so old he might snuff it from natural causes before he does too much damage.

But the average person will not learn from it. The idea that a group of people as large as tens or hundreds of millions needs one special individual at the top is the peak of human stupidity.

---

[note 1]: Some people see this as too arrogant to be said openly but them it becomes just an excuse for them to shut down their logical faculties and reject what I say based on primitive instincts, proving my point.

- Anyway, look at how many democracies use the plurality/FPTP voting system which is known to be pretty much the worst possible (https://rangevoting.org/).

- Look at how many people in the west will say that democracy is obviously good and dictatorship obviously bad but don't question why nearly all corporations have hierarchical (dictatorial) power structures.

- Look at how many people are OK with spending a third or half of their salary on rent, which is just free money that goes to people who contribute nothing to society.

- Look at how many people are unable to differentiate between morality (what is right) vs legality (what the state will penalize you for) and how even the language is warped to mix them (people saying "I did nothing wrong" when they are talking about breaking the rules, whether they are laws or whatever screed a subreddit mod came up with).

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#648

It's wild that a president can say, "I don't like Elon anymore, so out of retaliation, I'm canceling all his government contracts," and ~40% of the country doesn't see that as corruption in any way, shape, or form. Government contracts should not be based on whether or not the president likes the CEO, and the CEO says enough good things about the president. If you can cancel contacts not based on merit, then it shoul…

> This is literally the path that led the USSR to ruin.

Or China to current-day prosperity. It’s hard to admit but it’s a double edged sword and there are winners and losers.

Choose your poison wisely.

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#649

It's wild that a president can say, "I don't like Elon anymore, so out of retaliation, I'm canceling all his government contracts," and ~40% of the country doesn't see that as corruption in any way, shape, or form. Government contracts should not be based on whether or not the president likes the CEO, and the CEO says enough good things about the president. If you can cancel contacts not based on merit, then it shoul…

What does a democracy do when people willingly and knowingly vote for fascism? “Vote for me and you’ll never have to vote again” won…

Re: Musk-Trump dispute includes threats to SpaceX contracts

#650
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like of the Nietzschan philosophy? So in the case of trump the idea is that his voters like him because he’s different from the “evil” aristocratic class that trump claimed to oppose (eg “drain the swamp”)?

> Like of the Nietzschan philosophy? Yes, but the rest I disagree. I just think that most people (on both political sides) are not really better. If they would be given the position of power they would be corrupted and incompetent too. So in a sense you got what you deserve - and your democracy is working.

How does it connect back to the Nietzschan philosophy you mentioned?
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