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Rents fall in most U.S. metros since 2023, demand struggles to match supply

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Re: Rents fall in most U.S. metros since 2023, demand struggles to match supply

#21

Post by sfmz »

speff wrote: post #6
hiddencost wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rents are still too damn high. The shortage will be over when rent is less than 10% of take home pay for a lower class laborer in NYC.

Has rent ever been 10% of take-home pay of a lower-class laborer anywhere in history? Asking because this goal doesn't seem very achievable, but I could be wrong

By 1933 [Social Democrats in Vienna] had built almost 60,000 dwellings, mostly in huge apartment houses... These were built so efficiently that the average cost per apartment was only about $1,650 each; since rent was expected to cover only upkeep and not construction cost (which came from taxes), the average rent was less than $2.00 a month. Thus the poor of Vienna spend only a fraction of their income for rent, less than 3 percent, compared to 25 percent in Berlin and about 20 percent in Vienna before the war.

From "Tragedy & Hope" by Carrol Quigley

Re: Rents fall in most U.S. metros since 2023, demand struggles to match supply

#22

Post by energy123 »

andsoitis wrote: post #2

what's a good way to reconcile this with the common narrative that there's a big housing shortage?

There's a housing shortage in places like California where people aren't allowed to build. There's no housing shortage in places like Austin, Texas where people are allowed to build.

Re: Rents fall in most U.S. metros since 2023, demand struggles to match supply

#23

Post by margalabargala »

_1tem wrote: post #17
speff wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has rent ever been 10% of take-home pay of a lower-class laborer anywhere in history? Asking because this goal doesn't seem very achievable, but I could be wrong

Average salary in Ukraine is about 25,000 UAH, and average rent in some of the poorer regions was/is about 4000 UAH. So 16% of salary.

That's the average salary country wide. What's the average salary in "some of the poorer regions"?

Also I'm not sure rental rates in a country currently actively being invaded and regularly bombed is a good example.

Re: Rents fall in most U.S. metros since 2023, demand struggles to match supply

#24

Post by IshKebab »

_1tem wrote: post #17
speff wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has rent ever been 10% of take-home pay of a lower-class laborer anywhere in history? Asking because this goal doesn't seem very achievable, but I could be wrong

Average salary in Ukraine is about 25,000 UAH, and average rent in some of the poorer regions was/is about 4000 UAH. So 16% of salary.

Average salary will be lower in poorer regions though. 10% is a crazy goal.

Re: Rents fall in most U.S. metros since 2023, demand struggles to match supply

#25

Post by [deleted] »

_1tem wrote: post #17
speff wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has rent ever been 10% of take-home pay of a lower-class laborer anywhere in history? Asking because this goal doesn't seem very achievable, but I could be wrong

Average salary in Ukraine is about 25,000 UAH, and average rent in some of the poorer regions was/is about 4000 UAH. So 16% of salary.

[deleted]

Re: Rents fall in most U.S. metros since 2023, demand struggles to match supply

#26

Post by IshKebab »

sfmz wrote: post #21
speff wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has rent ever been 10% of take-home pay of a lower-class laborer anywhere in history? Asking because this goal doesn't seem very achievable, but I could be wrong

By 1933 [Social Democrats in Vienna] had built almost 60,000 dwellings, mostly in huge apartment houses... These were built so efficiently that the average cost per apartment was only about $1,650 each; since rent was expected to cover only upkeep and not construction cost (which came from taxes), the average rent was less than $2.00 a month. Thus the poor of Vienna spend only a fraction of their income for rent, les…

> rent was expected to cover only upkeep and not construction cost (which came from taxes)

I think he meant non-subsidized rents.

Re: Rents fall in most U.S. metros since 2023, demand struggles to match supply

#27

Post by _1tem »

margalabargala wrote: post #23
_1tem wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average salary in Ukraine is about 25,000 UAH, and average rent in some of the poorer regions was/is about 4000 UAH. So 16% of salary.

That's the average salary country wide. What's the average salary in "some of the poorer regions"? Also I'm not sure rental rates in a country currently actively being invaded and regularly bombed is a good example.

The situation was actually comparable even before the full-scale invasion.

Re: Rents fall in most U.S. metros since 2023, demand struggles to match supply

#28

Post by mathattack »

andsoitis wrote: post #2

what's a good way to reconcile this with the common narrative that there's a big housing shortage?

A couple ways:

1 - The median apartment this year may be different than the median apartment 3 years ago. Perhaps cheaper (or smaller) apartments and houses are coming up for rent. A more accurate measure would be comparing the prior rents to new rents for existing places.

2 - Median doesn't equal mean. The 50th percentile apartment may be cheaper, while the 25th (more applicable for housing affordability discussion) or 75th (more applicable to HN readers) may be higher.

3 - The median is still up 20% over pre-pandemic levels.

4 - To measure housing shortage we should check levels of homelessness based on economic reasons. (Much more complicated than median price)

Re: Rents fall in most U.S. metros since 2023, demand struggles to match supply

#29

Post by Lionga »

moron4hire wrote: post #7
jayd16 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Still, she added, rents are about 20% higher than pre-pandemic levels, and consumers remain concerned about their financial situation and job security in recent surveys. When people throw around the word shortage what they mean is "availability at a price I'm willing to pay." Same with labor shortages.

That's... the definition of shortage

[flagged]

Re: Rents fall in most U.S. metros since 2023, demand struggles to match supply

#30

Post by Molitor5901 »

andsoitis wrote: post #2

what's a good way to reconcile this with the common narrative that there's a big housing shortage?

My opinion is there is not really a housing shortage, instead, there is a shortage of housing where people want to live. Take any populous city and you will find the cute, walk-able neighborhoods that everyone wants to live in. Because of that, they have higher rental prices.

There is plenty of housing, but in a capitalist market of supply versus demand, the loudest group are going to be those who want to live in the expensive housing but can't afford it.

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